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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 4, 2013 21:33:52 GMT
Trade the 2 off-cc feats for Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration. Those are non-epic feats, yeah, but non-epic feats that every caster will want, and are even sinergic (is that a word?) with theurge, since the quasi gets a bonus to SP. Did this. It matches the Soc subby atm, and the suggested edit would make it more, not less, like the Theurge, since your last suggested (and accepted) edit. Suggested stats? Thanks, Funky
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Post by KnightErrant on Apr 5, 2013 2:34:00 GMT
Favored of Gruumesh (requires half-orc): STR +4 CON +4 DEX +2 WIS +4 (total +14) WF/GWF/WS/EWS Quarterstaff, Epic Prowess (2 pre-epic, 3 epic feats) 5% bonus to the conceal provided by Empty Body Very well-thought-out. I'm tempted to add it, but it seems to kill a lot of build diversity by handing over all the fighter feats. I would add 2 to Dex to bring it in line with the other races (no 6+ stat means 16 total). Is taking fighter not a tenable option for this build for some reason? Funky The main problem I see with this one is that it gives Legendary and Paragon Weapon Specialization to Quarter Staff for no fighter splash, which...IMHO...would lead to this being the "no brainer" sub of choice for Staffmasters leaving the Staffy sub mostly unused...once again IMHO. KE.
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Post by arek on Apr 5, 2013 3:57:16 GMT
Favored of Gruumesh (requires half-orc): STR +4 CON +4 DEX +2 WIS +4 (total +14) WF/GWF/WS/EWS Quarterstaff, Epic Prowess (2 pre-epic, 3 epic feats) 5% bonus to the conceal provided by Empty Body Very well-thought-out. I'm tempted to add it, but it seems to kill a lot of build diversity by handing over all the fighter feats. I would add 2 to Dex to bring it in line with the other races (no 6+ stat means 16 total). Is taking fighter not a tenable option for this build for some reason? Funky Fighter is a tenable option for staff monks, just as it is for any other monk, even fist monks (if you don't mind losing your keen on gloves you could easily splash quite heavily on a fist monk - TinyMonk/Flying Fists certainly does). I don't think that the weapon spec. feats really kill build diversity here, but they do represent a power boost. Also keep in mind that a staff monk going with Favored of Gruumesh will be a bit skill-tight unless it starts with 14 int (16 effective, 10 build points at creation vs 6 for other races), since monks need 5 skills plus some extra points (Discipline, Tumble, Listen, Craft Armor, Craft Weapon, and some Concentration), and only get 5 skills total (and so have to drop some CA or CW before paragon levels and don't get as many "offset/extra" points in PLs), assuming they're not splashing something with more/less skills (usually less). I toyed with the idea of +4 dex myself when I was writing this up, but decided that with +6 str (after half-orc) it would be stretching the limits of balance, and the fighter feats are nice in their own right - maybe +6 STR but only +2 WIS, giving one +6 stat and +14 total would be more balanced stat-wise. Thanks for the consideration on this. --Arek
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Post by arek on Apr 5, 2013 4:11:55 GMT
Very well-thought-out. I'm tempted to add it, but it seems to kill a lot of build diversity by handing over all the fighter feats. I would add 2 to Dex to bring it in line with the other races (no 6+ stat means 16 total). Is taking fighter not a tenable option for this build for some reason? Funky The main problem I see with this one is that it gives Legendary and Paragon Weapon Specialization to Quarter Staff for no fighter splash, which...IMHO...would lead to this being the "no brainer" sub of choice for Staffmasters leaving the Staffy sub mostly unused...once again IMHO. KE. With -2 INT from half-orc and no WM prereq. feats other than Weapon Focus QS you'd be pretty hard pressed to be able to use this while getting a decent AB compared to Half-Planetar (or even Koly) on a staffmaster. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it would be difficult. Another -2 INT would absolutely kill the race for staffmasters if you're really worried about it, but then the ability scores would need more rebalancing and there may need to be some additional feature added to offset the big penalty to INT/Skills. The other option would be to switch WF/GWF QStaff out 2 other feats, maybe Power Attack and IC: Quarterstaff. --Arek P.S. According to the sheet, Half-planetar still needs a special ability, but I'm not sure what I could suggest that would be both relevant and balanced (and without one I would be sorely tempted to use my originally-suggested version of this over Half-Planetar)
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Post by simpetar on Apr 5, 2013 12:04:52 GMT
Observation: BK XR subrace states that PWK becomes Necromancy. PWK is not a BK spell however at this moment (PW: Stun is). In addition, BKs tend to prefer Divination to Necro, due to the simple fact that it is difficult to reach a decent DC on Necromancy spells and Divination has cookies in +16 soak Premonition, PW: Stun (respecting only SR), and to a degree extended C/C. Am I missing something? I don't think you're missing anything, no. Suggestions on how to resolve? Funky 1. Give them arcane Conjuration epic once per rest at CL = character level. Bigbies are what BKs are good at and known for, mass grab nicely suits that flavor. Also it is not the end-all epic spell, so it is not OP in hands of a build other than BK. 2. Reduce layer penalties by 1, aka Half Moly. 3. Let them qualify for arcane epics in school they have ESF in. BKs are in a way arcane counterpart to b-clerics: both are str tanks relying mainly on self buffs and few other supportive spells. BCs get their epics and BKs get nothing. I understand that this might be way too OP in hands of any other than BK (and easy to exploit), but at least it is food for thoughts. 4. Artifact level immunity to stun or daze or confusion or fear. 5. Arcane specialization in Necro / Evo / Div /Abj.
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Post by Yojimbo on Apr 5, 2013 12:52:09 GMT
A carrot for a BK XR maybe immunity to all the Bigby spells since as others point out hands are kind of their thing.
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Post by KnightErrant on Apr 5, 2013 14:13:02 GMT
A carrot for a BK XR maybe immunity to all the Bigby spells since as others point out hands are kind of their thing. Great idea ! KE.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 6, 2013 3:16:35 GMT
A carrot for a BK XR maybe immunity to all the Bigby spells since as others point out hands are kind of their thing. Done, thanks. I'm nearing completion on names, but still need some specials filled in. They're likely to be fairly boring unless you guys pipe up... Funky
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 3:32:53 GMT
Sorcerer: +10% magical immunity Wizard: Immunity to greater dispel Theurge: +50% duration to Greater Restoration? not sure if it fits as subby bonus Pariah: It's only +8 regen, I think +80 was too much but how about +1/4 levels, that's +20 at level 80 and I think is more in line with other bonuses.
Battle Cleric: +50% duration to gate? not sure if it fits as subby bonus Lash: SF/ESF Hide Staffmaster: Immunity to greater dispel
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Post by pete on Apr 6, 2013 7:53:23 GMT
the sorc XR 10% magic immunity just doesn't seem Special, since its quite easy to get on BUR gear and 5% immunity can be put on any random item with a rare augmenter.
how about +1 uses of greater ruin? (so 2/day without spellcraft, 3/day with 50 spellcraft) the XR gets that feat so all XR sorcs will benefit from it. (and sorcerers getting more uses/day than other casters fits with their current spells)
is it possible to make a single skill immune to decreases such as a curse song or area pens? if so for sorc special - immunity to lore decrease (some tanks might like immunity to discipline decrease)
since wizard XR is currently getting +1DC to lvl 0-6 spells (which is awesome) then how about a specific bonus to sorcerers such as +3% concealment from EV stacking with illusion foci? (to my knowledge all sorcs take this spell)
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 6, 2013 7:59:09 GMT
is it possible to make a single skill immune to decreases such as a curse song or area pens? if so for sorc special - immunity to lore decrease (some tanks might like immunity to discipline decrease) Nope, sorry. Feel free to keep posting though, Vichya and I are brainstorming these as I type this. Thanks, Funky
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Post by pete on Apr 6, 2013 8:31:54 GMT
a few more:
Theuge XR - allow use of the other caster stat for DC if higher, currently if a theuge is int based its cleric spells have terrible DC and a wis based theuge has terrible DC in its wizard spells, though the standard 25/15 build allows lvl 8 spells on the non CC class (this may be OP, but thought id post it anyway).
barbarian - make it so thundering rage doesn't heal (if possible)
Dex 1 - currently this subs special is dex mod is added to parry a second time but as a magical bonus within the +50 cap. in BUR gear it really isn't difficult to hit that +50 cap so I don't think this will be that useful (but I could be wrong, I just know in my gear iv never had trouble). perhaps dex mod or dex mod/2 per cent chance of ignoring a critical hit altogether.
WM - currently this is only 10% to a single physical immunity. the warchanter and DD XR subs are listed to get phys immunities to all 3 types, perhaps make WM 10% to all 3 as well.
not a discussion about specials, but there are currently 2 herald XR subs with the same feats but different caster stats, this may be better as a male/female split
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 6, 2013 8:33:51 GMT
Looking into the barb idea, thanks. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 6, 2013 8:48:30 GMT
a few more: Theuge XR - allow use of the other caster stat for DC if higher, currently if a theuge is int based its cleric spells have terrible DC and a wis based theuge has terrible DC in its wizard spells, though the standard 25/15 build allows lvl 8 spells on the non CC class (this may be OP, but thought id post it anyway). OP. Not feasible, too much overhead. Also not feasible. The bludg is based on the race. I upped it a bit in fairness bc of the other two, though those races are much more defense-oriented. That's why I oranged one, actually. I'm looking for a new special, and will make M/F instead if I can't think of one. Now that we have the subs mostly hammered out, I'm going back through with an eye to the actual subrace, and noting appy changes if any. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 6, 2013 9:00:32 GMT
Basically just barbarian and theurges need specials now, though I will be making a final pass through them to make things more suitable to the races picked. Ideas still welcome.
Thanks, Funky
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