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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 22, 2013 22:32:52 GMT
You can find the link to the Google Doc version of the XR item spreadsheet here. Items in columns EC and right are still tentative, but the rest is fairly set. Comments most welcome. Funky
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2013 21:23:16 GMT
This spreadsheet is really well done, thanks.
1. The Sorc CC non-quasi helmet has +18 Deflection AC. The Mask of Mystra helmet from Illithids and Mask of the Blood War from Azzagrat Part 3 are both somewhat analogous to this XR helmet yet the latter two have +20 Deflection AC instead of +18. Sorcerers will typically hover at a dangerous range of 126-131 ac range and +2 ac in this range helps a lot. Could this special helmet be considered for +20 Deflection AC instead? For the special, maybe along the wizard line something like: 25% chance to only use 1 spell while channeling instead of multiple?
2. Shifter +10% EP while in forms is not too useful. Shifters typically do not run out of EP sooner than a party needs to rest and only a +10% boost is not that much. If these are favorable and feasible to implement I wanted to suggest the following instead: Stone golem rock throw, Marut electric pulse, Azer fire blast/pulse, Harpy curse, kobold trap, spectre bestow curse increase AOE size by 1 category (the radius is really small atm on these and a boost like that would be most welcome).
3. Lash special: Instead of taking 6 hits to fully inflict a monster to maximum, takes only 3 hits.
4. Paladin special: Lay on hands lasts twice as long
5. Bard special: Bards don't really run out of curse or songs. Maybe instead, make it so Dirge of the Deathless doesn't have an inner circle and instead everyone in the full radius gains the inner circle effect?
6. Druid special: HP from blood frenzy is empowered, tortoise shell automatically applies foundation of stone (cancel-able)
7. Pariah special: With shapechange modified to become AOE stone this special isn't as appealing as it once may have been. Could pariahs maybe get +3 SP on non-transmutation spells while raging instead of +2?
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 23, 2013 23:08:40 GMT
This spreadsheet is really well done, thanks. I appreciate the praise, but I mostly cribbed it from Shardelay. No. It can already slot up to +19, and I don't think there'll be much confusion over which is the better helm. Interesting, I'll look into that. Noted in the field. Noted as well - did you manage to get at least one from each FF? Looks like, but I'm not a shifter expert. Uh, no. If it's any comfort, enemies will probably be staying up longer in PL areas. 4. Paladin special: Lay on hands lasts twice as long Also no, but open to other suggestions. This one seems a bit skitzo - maybe for two different items. The latter is over the top as well. I rather prefer giving the bump to a now-underutilized spell, which might help bring it back some. I noted it as an additional possibility, however, since that helm seems pretty thin. I also added 5 regen, which pariahs in XR gear will be much harder pressed to find. Thanks, Funky
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2013 23:27:21 GMT
No, I couldn't think of what to add to dragon, and construct has 2 shapes that I listed a benefit from (if only 1 is preferred, Stone Golem would be more welcome to have a size increase)
Perhaps instead the item could auto-empower Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, and Mass Cure Light Wounds. These are all nice spells for bard but even Mass Cure Serious Wounds caps at around ~400 hp on avg. Auto-empowering these could be a nice buff for a such a support-oriented class.
Yeah, that was just two suggestions I thought would benefit druid. As for the latter, at the moment you can cast Tortoise Shell and then Foundation of Stone to be KD immune and gain AC while flatfoot, so it would just save ~3 seconds casting FoS after Tortoise Shell. Though I can understand why that would be too powerful.
Ok. My Pariah currently uses Reverse Gravity, Disintegrate and Flensing a lot but never uses BB8, Shapechange, FtS, StF or the summon spells. The problem with BB8 at the moment is that reverse gravity essentially does what BB8 will do (bludgeoning dmg) but does it better. Shapechange, FtS, and StF are all unused because Lvl 9 and Lvl 6 pariah spell selection is locked in (Weird/ED/PWK at level 9 and CoD/Freezing Sphere/Disint at lvl 6, dropping any of these spells makes your power drop considerably in end game areas).
On that note, I forgot about the spell Temporal Stasis. This is a really nice spell but is completely unused because its duration is way too short. If the pariah XR special tripled the duration I think it would come back into use, giving the spell a new niche with Pariah.
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Post by condude on Mar 24, 2013 0:41:12 GMT
For a boost to dragon shape, maybe +5 feet (maybe more or less) to all the breath weapons? And I'd also like to echo the sentiments of Laser: Great job, you guys never cease to amaze me.
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Post by Xiayu on Mar 24, 2013 1:14:33 GMT
I would like to see some of these effects added as an item or class bonus/feat:
- Paladin/Blackguard/Champion: Increase Greater Smite damage Increase Greater Smite area of effect Lower cooldown on Greater Smite Extra uses of smite good/evil
- Lash of Hatred: 10% vulnerability on non-favoured enemies Increase infliction on favoured enemies
- Bard: Curse songs drop Spell Resistance by a small amount (2?), stacking with other effects Songs also heal party members % Chance of not consuming ticks on epic spells
- Purple Dragon Knight: Stability aura/double on self (+str/dex on KD checks) Extra uses/duration on special abilities
- Wizard: Specialized school spells can be cast spontaneously, consuming another spell of that level instead
- Blackguard: Bless weapon applies poison on-hit instead, lowering enemy's stats/skills or cast bestow curse/lifesteal(temporal hit points)?
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Post by Lythe Featherblade on Mar 24, 2013 2:49:21 GMT
Ranger slot items have +spot, and assassin items +move silent. Are there plans for uses for these skills? (doesn't the ranger DC aug have +spot too?)
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 24, 2013 2:49:58 GMT
Perhaps instead the item could auto-empower Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, and Mass Cure Light Wounds. These are all nice spells for bard but even Mass Cure Serious Wounds caps at around ~400 hp on avg. Auto-empowering these could be a nice buff for a such a support-oriented class. Added, as a question mark. Might be better on another item, and I kind of like the current bonus, questions of uses aside - that radius increase is pretty substantial. You also save yourself having to memorize a lot of spells. Kind of kills the spell for anyone who has the item. So never gonna happen. It's an alternate disabler on par with maze (though perhaps not on par in current endgame areas). Funky
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Post by vulp on Mar 26, 2013 16:38:06 GMT
Does Brd CC Special Helmet increase curse radius stack with abyss bard armor?
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 26, 2013 19:52:59 GMT
It hasn't been implemented yet - none of the specials have. That makes that an entirely hypothetical question. I'm open to discussion of whether it should, but my gut says probably not. I'd really like to get the specials hammered out, as I will begin mass manufacture of XRs in an hour or two, now that the necessary groundwork is complete. Any and all discussion of the class-specific item specials and the other item specials would be much better before I implement them, rather than after. To that end, I'm repasting the page of item specials you all drempt up in a thread months ago, along with staff power ratings of those specials, to help fuel thought on the subject: XR SpecialsThanks, Funky
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Post by Salek on Mar 28, 2013 9:49:29 GMT
[...] I would like the DC of Slinger bullets to depend on their primary attack stat, i.e. on dexterity or wisdom, and not only on their level. Making it depend on the level means it never improves in paragon levels, and frankly even DC 55 bullets aren't that good when you play in high demi groups. [...] So: Slinger special: - Increase the bullet DC by a certain amount and something similiar came to mind for threader (in case an extended threading radius is seen as OP) Threader special: - Increase save DC (might help for DEX and STR threader as well, because the save is WIS based) or - Threading lowers SR by a few points - stacking
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 28, 2013 17:36:10 GMT
[...] I would like the DC of Slinger bullets to depend on their primary attack stat, i.e. on dexterity or wisdom, and not only on their level. Making it depend on the level means it never improves in paragon levels, and frankly even DC 55 bullets aren't that good when you play in high demi groups. [...] So: Slinger special: - Increase the bullet DC by a certain amount and something similiar came to mind for threader (in case an extended threading radius is seen as OP) Threader special: - Increase save DC (might help for DEX and STR threader as well, because the save is WIS based) or - Threading lowers SR by a few points - stacking We have to be careful when conceiving specials. It's good to boost a class weakness a bit, but you don't want to go too far, or you create a balance problem: those without the sub will be underpowered, and those with, at par, or above. When changes are then made to bring the class into line, those with the item would then be overpowered. A point of DC is one thing, but more than that, and you start to run into the above problem. At the moment, I'm considering other steps for slingers, like the AA aug - making it work for them would help some. Past that, I'm inclined towards a reword scaling including PLs. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 28, 2013 17:49:28 GMT
On a more pressing note, I'm still implementing XRs, and getting bogged down by the last in each general group, the one designed as a bonus item once a pc has the other 5 (phys resists, ele resists, exo, eso, phys imm) covered. The #6 items, for lack of a better moniker, require specials with at least moderately broad application (not just one class). Sometimes it's rare bonus feats, sometimes its spell immunities or spell casts, sometimes its environmental survival abilities - etc; basically, unique things the other 1-5 items lack. For the boots (Constant Drift), I went with the original suggestion: Spell Immunity: Flesh to Stone, Hold Person, Power Word: Stun use: FoM 5/day lvl 50, StF 5/day, standup function like eelskin flippers Levitate
though I dropped FoM to 3/day, iirc (I'm using the excel doc to work off of).
For the helm, Haunted Corridors of the Mind, I went with 10% eso immunities and the following: Spell immunity feeblemind Cast Spell: Clarity 5/day lvl 50
For the belt, This Laxity Enabled, I have the following planned:
Spell immunity to all bigby's Cast Spell Unique Power: 2/day 15 rnds crit immunity, RestWear When under etherealness effects ignore unit collision. (True Etherealness), 20% chance of autorez on death stacking to max of +50%
It has a lot of specials because it has little else.
I think the three are above items are generally in balance, but I spent a lot of time arriving at the decision on the belt. If people could propose specials with the item name/theme in mind that they would like to see (for this particular group of #6 items, not the class specific items) , it'd be a big timesaver for me. There's only a few #6 items, so I'll list them by name to avoid confusion:
Lies Hidden Beneath Each Seeking to Control Holding Secrets Reunite the Halves Stain on the Heavens Testify to the Carnage Dull Your Pain Invite the Wrath That Which Forebodes The Ultimate Truth Defend to Death The Deeper Secrets
To be clear, the specials already listed on them may well be perfect, but it's unlikely that that's the case on all of them. I'm hoping for a few people with a lot of experience with our loot to look through and decide if a) they could see one or more of their characters using it, and b) if its power is in line with the other #6 items listed above. This will save me a TON of time in implementation, after which I can start on the first PL areas...
Thanks in advance, Funky
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2013 1:42:11 GMT
I've done my best to see if my characters would use it and if it would be in line with the other #6 category items. Can try to provide ideas for alterative #6 specials if you want for ones I feel are less powerful than the rest.
1. Cloak: Lies Hidden Beneath
Main Pros: +14 to mental stats and immunity to level 9 instakills (weird, pwk, detonate, wail, plode), also +10 lore for druid/sorc
Would I wear it? Yes, this cloak would be very handy for casters and tanks that don't use Wrap of the Dark Prince in areas (like Aboleths, Zion2 at the moment) who lack weird/pwk immunity (and to a lesser extend plode, though that is much easier to cover). Currently PWK is almost impossible to cover on an item unless you use than3 helmet (interferes with VoV for tanks, amni helm for casters - so cloak is much more attractive) or than3 ring (lack of immunities makes this ring only good for GS). Weird is already available on the shed3 cloak but completely lacks physical immunities, making this special cloak much more attractive. The +14 to mental stats is not all that important though.
Is its power balanced? I would say yes.
2. Amulet: Each Seeking to Control
Would I use it? No, not really. There's already the powerful confusion amulet from azz3 giving exotic imms, 10% physical imms, +16 str and conf imm or BUR HH that gives level 6 spell immunity. I think the main lack of usefulness of the amulet is that my characters usually have specific skill needs and a +10 boost across the board (and SF for another +3) and conf imm as a bonus isn't really all that helpful compared to the other specials. While confusion immunity is nice, amulet is one of the item slots that already has good options for confusion immunity.
If I had already covered the imms/bonuses that the other XR amulets had I would probably be using Strongheart (for str tanks) / HH (for lvl 6 spell immunity) / azz3 amulet Remembrance of Iggwilv (conf imm with better physical imms + charmed immunity (if that becomes useful) + exotic resists to help/change gear setup)/vestige Levitation or waterbreathing amulet.
This amulet is tougher to judge I guess because I'm not familiar with how hard it will be to max out key skills with XR gear. If it turns out to be pretty difficult then I think this amulet is fine power-wise.
3. Gloves: Holding Secrets (rogue-skill targeted)
Would I use it? Never in combat, maybe outside of combat for looting. But it might be useful to swap in to perform rogue duties. Unfortunately this is already easy to do using UR/BUR/current set loot and to have an XR taking up a spot as a loot-skill help kind of item I think is unneeded. For example, the UR rogue armor Pads of Cruamros Trickfoot + Guildmaster's Glint already brings rogue to basically maxed skills and I don't think these gloves would help them (combat-wise a rogue wouldn't even use them in combat as it doesn't have any notable bonuses for fighting).
If a rogue starts to have to perform disable trap/set trap in combat etc then it might be somewhat useful.
4. Bracers: Reunite the Halves (bard targeted)
Would I use it? No. Bards have a huge charisma bonus and the ability to sing/self-buff persuade/perform to max +50 cap and for those 2 reasons bards generally have 0 problems achieving 127 perform + 127 persuade. The main reason I wouldn't use it is because there is a lack of nice immunities. Golden Guard from Phlegethos or Claws of the Obyrith Lord from Zion3, or Bracers of Many Eyes from abo2 for bard are nice for this reason. Skills are definitely nice for bard but Craft Armor, Heal, Parry are harder (yet still desirable) to get up than perform/persuade/pick pocket/concentration.
5. Robes: Stain on the Heavens
Would I use it? Yes, for a robed tank (not for any caster as they all have better dc/sp bonus options from armor). This robe is very good and desirable because of the bonus to +3 stat checks and the +4 saves (both quite large boosts). The +14 to the mental stats goes excellent with the asmo belt as well. The lack of good skills or imm/resists helps offset the bonuses of this robe.
Is it power balanced? Yeah, compared to the other options I think it's balanced for robe item.
6. Light Armor: Testify to the Carnage (weapon buffs)
Would I use it? Yes, basically large dps increase in lacking party where you don't have any weapon buffs or no gmw. Good for most any tank (though some medium armor ones would have to sacrifice some AC). I wouldn't use it except to get weapon buffs though, it's not that powerful otherwise (though the special ability makes it worthwhile).
Is it power balanced? Yes, it's not terribly useful except when you lack weapon buffs and then it's a great niche item.
7. Dull Your Pain: Medium Armor (kb reduction)
Would I use it? Yes. This item is incredibly powerful. Medium armor is pretty standard among my str tanks - the parry boost is a little wasted since most have crit immunity but concentration boost is definitely welcome. However, the added feats: evasion, improved evasion, dodge and 60% KB reduction are what make it very powerful. In KB-heavy runs 60% is huge (because of how resists factor into damage mititation the actual damage reduced may well be closer to 90%) and improved evasion is incredibly useful in abyss/elysium (mainly abyss). There is evasion on other items but they are mostly very, very bad items otherwise (looking at azz3 ring when I say that atm ^^).
Is it power balanced? No, I think it's a bit too much. I think KB reduction of <= 50% and no improved evasion (only regular evasion) is enough honestly.
8. Invite Your Wrath: Heavy Armor (defensive)
Would I use it? Maybe on shifter only. Parry/tumble bonuses aren't too useful for ones I would use it on but large CA increase + ESF CA is probably +1 more ac, on top of +2 extra AC that's +3 AC for this heavy armor. Unfortunately with the release of PL getting 28 dex to get maximum AC out of medium armor is possibly for any toon (even my pariah that gets dex set to 6...) so I would not use heavy armor on any toon except cleric (because of divine chorus) / pally/bg (because of cania armors) / shifter. So no, I wouldn't really use it, but that is more due to the unattractiveness of heavy armor in general and not due to the armor itself. If some improvement of heavy armor over medium armor instead of just 5% more physical imm was made then I would probably use it though.
Is it power balanced? Yes, the main perk of it is the huge CA bonus + 2 more extra ac giving it a great AC boost over other heavy armors, and still maintaining decent imms which I think is enough.
9. That Which Forbodes: Tower Shield (defensive)
Would I use it? Yes, I could see myself using it. Basically the main benefit of this shield are 10% physical imm, huge CA/tumble/parry bonus, and ESF:CA/Parry. This makes it not desirable for tower shield users who get crit immunity, but highly desirable for classes that might use tower shield like cleric+shifter which parry is hard to find on gear and reduces damage by a lot (cleric+shifter also have AC on the lowish side so CA helps them more).
Is it power balanced? I think it's a bit on the weak side - great boost to parry/ca/tumble is nice but lack of any nice imms (main lure of other specials) or extra like regen/soak make it less desirable. Boosting concentration as well I think would bring it in line with the others.
10. The Ultimate Truth: Large Shield
Would I use it? Yes if I needed the skills. Large shields are the most commonly used shield. Huge boosts to nice skills especially listen and parry make it desirable, but skill focus ca/cw/parry is pretty underwhelming. However all of the other large shields have no listen/parry bonus. +14 wis is nice bonus also as wisdom can be hard bonus to get to +16 as tank currently (though +14 is easy from VoV).
Is it power balanced? I don't think so, mainly because the special bonus is sf parry/ca/cw and lack of some nice immunity makes the entire shield desirable only for its listen/parry/cw/tumble bonus. Add in SF listen as well, some small conc or ca boost I think would be more balanced compared to rest.
11. Defend to Death: Small shield
Would I use it? Have zero small shield users but if I had one I might use it for the huge listen/ca bonus. The abo small shield Spirit Ward may be hard to give up though - gives +20 parry/tumble, +5 regen, 5% physical imms, and epic fort + 10% ecto to boot.
Is it power balanced? The skill set looks to be but bonus (ESF/LSF) only being for CW is a little underwhelming, CW is certainly a nice stat for tanks but LSF basically does nothing for the shield when it already gives +35 CW since LSF won't go past the +50 cap and easy to go to +50 cap from +35 with pre-LL sill bonus, prayer/bard song, prince win. Maybe extending skill bonus or skill feat more to disc/parry would help (I know it's supposed to be offensive shield, but offensive stats mainly being CW/Listen only makes shield focused on those not nearly as desirable as the cool imms on other #6 category items).
12. The Deeper Secrets: Torch
Would I use it? Have no torch users but PC/SC, huge sneak bonus, +parry/taunt and int/wis (mental stat combo going well with asmo belt) make it a nice option I would probably use if I had torch user. Nice mix of potent offensive stats for torch.
Is it balanced? Yes, I think the torch's normal properties + fact that it has PC/SC + huge sneak make it nice option balanced compared to others.
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As to XR specials, unfortunately bard having the special as helmet makes it undesirable and can't really see myself ever using it (aoe bestow helmet/amni helmet much more attractive). I can understand tying sorc/pariah to helmet but for bard to have special tied to helmet seems a bit harsh in my opinion. Cloak, amulet, or boots would be much more desirable. Even if the +curse increase stacked with abyss armor it's not even that nice of a special - Abyss armor AOE is very powerful but there's diminishing returns for increased AOE size on curse after the 50% increase. However if there's another XR item significantly better than azz3 armor (hard to beat though) allowing bard to get full conceal on displacement then the bard special would be desirable. Something like Sowing the Seeds of Death Vestige cloak giving +1 bonus to wail of doom would be enough.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 29, 2013 1:55:25 GMT
Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. Nice work. If anyone disagrees with laser's analysis, sooner rather than later would be a good time to post about it. Funky
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