Post by Raj on Apr 11, 2013 18:46:13 GMT
I'd like to see this old quasi reworked ('ooomph' abilities, incentive to go sorc CC, special weapons and whatnot) but there're so many things in the making that I dare suggest a light approach in order to update their spell list: this should be enough to let BKs act as support caster in the latest areas and provide them some much needed self-buffs.
Let give a look at their actual spell list.
Spells
- Spell DCs for certin spells (those listed below) are equal to 10 + spell level + (STR modifierx9/10).
- Caster levels for those same spells are equal to Sorcerer level + Blackguard level.
- All other spells follow standard rules for casterlevel and dc, relying on Sorcerer levels only and using CHA instead of STR to calculate DC.
- A Bane Knight may change their spells once at level 60 using the Spells Pedestal in the docks if their control class is not Sorceror.
- Level 1: Grease, Mage Armor, Shield, True Strike, Protection vs. Alignment
- Level 2: Balagorn's Iron Horn, Bull's Strength, Eagle's Splendor, Endurance, Flame Weapon , Death Armor
- Level 3: Greater Magic Weapon , Keen, Magic Circle vs. Alignment, Vampiric Touch
- Level 4: Bestow Curse, Confusion, Elemental Shield, Minor Globe of Invulnerability, Stoneskin, Phantasmal Killer.
- Level 5: Acid Sheath, Bigby's Interposing Hand, Dismissal, Energy Buffer, Mind Fog, Wrack.
- Level 6: Bigby's Forceful Hand, Greater Stoneskin, Tenser's Transfromation
- Level 7: Banishment, Bigby's Grasping Hand, Power Word Stun, Protection from Spells, Spell Mantle, Shadow Shield
- Level 8: Bigby's Clenched Fist, Mass Blindness/Deafness, Premonition
- Level 9: Energy Drain, Bigby's Crushing Hand, Weird
Premonition
- Bane Knights get a special version of the Premonition spell. They are able to cast it while wearing armor heavier than cloth and/or while using a shield, unlike Sorcerers.
First thing, it's horribly outdated: shock weapon, weapon of impact, expeditious retreat... these 'new' spells could be added without fear of balance issues.
Then, the oddities: BK can cast energy drain but not enervate, pw:stun but not pw:kill, minor globe but not globe of invulnerability, just one spell mantle spell; more on this on the reworked spell list.
Last, and more important imo, there's lack of focus for a quasi that has no free spell focii (relying on gm3 plate is not really a incentive for newbies): there're a couple spells from every school, not enough to justify a feat investment for anything that's not bigby support.
Heralds already cover ench/conj schools, (sorc)/pms are masters in necro/illu, pariahs have trans and bfm/dsm direct dmg specialists in evocation... when building a bane knight you have hard time thinking what they provide to the party that some other quasi can't do better, and at the same time you can't ignore strength and melee feats; so let cover the two missing schools at least, giving them a array of abj/div spells very well suited for a self-buff and anti-mage approach (again, it would be cool to give them al sort of dispel/feeblemind on hit abilities, spell resistance and more, but let keep this suggestion thread low profile).
Enchantment has good sinergy with gmw, we can keep confusion/mind forg and add rebuke/antipathy as they suit quite good the evil knight concept imo, but necro/illu spells are too much, and already too common in mages spellbooks.
My new spell list idea:
added removed
Spells
- Level 1: Mage Armor, Shield, True Strike, Protection vs. Alignment, Expeditious Retreat, Grease
- Level 2: Balagorn's Iron Horn, Bull's Strength, Eagle's Splendor, Endurance, Flame Weapon , Death Armor, Shock Weapon
- Level 3: Greater Magic Weapon , Keen, Magic Circle vs. Alignment, Vampiric Touch, Clarity, Weapon of Impact, Needle Point
- Level 4: Bestow Curse, Confusion, Elemental Shield, Minor Globe of Invulnerability, Stoneskin, Phantasmal Killer, Break Enchantment, Lesser Spell Breach
- Level 5: Acid Sheath, Bigby's Interposing Hand, Dismissal, Energy Buffer, Mind Fog, Wrack, Minor Mind Blank, Lesser Spell Mantle
- Level 6: Bigby's Forceful Hand, Greater Stoneskin, Tenser's Transfromation, Greater Dispel Magic, Globe of Invulnerability, Spell Breach
- Level 7: Banishment, Bigby's Grasping Hand, Power Word Stun, Protection from Spells, Spell Mantle, Shadow Shield, Energy Immunity, Rebuke
- Level 8: Bigby's Clenched Fist, Mass Blindness/Deafness, Premonition, Greater Spell Breach, Antipathy, Mind Blank
- Level 9: Energy Drain, Bigby's Crushing Hand, Weird, Mordeknainen's Disjunction, Power Word:Kill, Spell Mantle
There's enough variety to have at least three BK concepts (self-buffed tank only, disabler/antimage or 2nd arcane -this one expecially good for ely/abo/abyss-) without sacrificing too much.
Let give a look at their actual spell list.
Spells
- Spell DCs for certin spells (those listed below) are equal to 10 + spell level + (STR modifierx9/10).
- Caster levels for those same spells are equal to Sorcerer level + Blackguard level.
- All other spells follow standard rules for casterlevel and dc, relying on Sorcerer levels only and using CHA instead of STR to calculate DC.
- A Bane Knight may change their spells once at level 60 using the Spells Pedestal in the docks if their control class is not Sorceror.
- Level 1: Grease, Mage Armor, Shield, True Strike, Protection vs. Alignment
- Level 2: Balagorn's Iron Horn, Bull's Strength, Eagle's Splendor, Endurance, Flame Weapon , Death Armor
- Level 3: Greater Magic Weapon , Keen, Magic Circle vs. Alignment, Vampiric Touch
- Level 4: Bestow Curse, Confusion, Elemental Shield, Minor Globe of Invulnerability, Stoneskin, Phantasmal Killer.
- Level 5: Acid Sheath, Bigby's Interposing Hand, Dismissal, Energy Buffer, Mind Fog, Wrack.
- Level 6: Bigby's Forceful Hand, Greater Stoneskin, Tenser's Transfromation
- Level 7: Banishment, Bigby's Grasping Hand, Power Word Stun, Protection from Spells, Spell Mantle, Shadow Shield
- Level 8: Bigby's Clenched Fist, Mass Blindness/Deafness, Premonition
- Level 9: Energy Drain, Bigby's Crushing Hand, Weird
Premonition
- Bane Knights get a special version of the Premonition spell. They are able to cast it while wearing armor heavier than cloth and/or while using a shield, unlike Sorcerers.
First thing, it's horribly outdated: shock weapon, weapon of impact, expeditious retreat... these 'new' spells could be added without fear of balance issues.
Then, the oddities: BK can cast energy drain but not enervate, pw:stun but not pw:kill, minor globe but not globe of invulnerability, just one spell mantle spell; more on this on the reworked spell list.
Last, and more important imo, there's lack of focus for a quasi that has no free spell focii (relying on gm3 plate is not really a incentive for newbies): there're a couple spells from every school, not enough to justify a feat investment for anything that's not bigby support.
Heralds already cover ench/conj schools, (sorc)/pms are masters in necro/illu, pariahs have trans and bfm/dsm direct dmg specialists in evocation... when building a bane knight you have hard time thinking what they provide to the party that some other quasi can't do better, and at the same time you can't ignore strength and melee feats; so let cover the two missing schools at least, giving them a array of abj/div spells very well suited for a self-buff and anti-mage approach (again, it would be cool to give them al sort of dispel/feeblemind on hit abilities, spell resistance and more, but let keep this suggestion thread low profile).
Enchantment has good sinergy with gmw, we can keep confusion/mind forg and add rebuke/antipathy as they suit quite good the evil knight concept imo, but necro/illu spells are too much, and already too common in mages spellbooks.
My new spell list idea:
added removed
Spells
- Level 1: Mage Armor, Shield, True Strike, Protection vs. Alignment, Expeditious Retreat, Grease
- Level 2: Balagorn's Iron Horn, Bull's Strength, Eagle's Splendor, Endurance, Flame Weapon , Death Armor, Shock Weapon
- Level 3: Greater Magic Weapon , Keen, Magic Circle vs. Alignment, Vampiric Touch, Clarity, Weapon of Impact, Needle Point
- Level 4: Bestow Curse, Confusion, Elemental Shield, Minor Globe of Invulnerability, Stoneskin, Phantasmal Killer, Break Enchantment, Lesser Spell Breach
- Level 5: Acid Sheath, Bigby's Interposing Hand, Dismissal, Energy Buffer, Mind Fog, Wrack, Minor Mind Blank, Lesser Spell Mantle
- Level 6: Bigby's Forceful Hand, Greater Stoneskin, Tenser's Transfromation, Greater Dispel Magic, Globe of Invulnerability, Spell Breach
- Level 7: Banishment, Bigby's Grasping Hand, Power Word Stun, Protection from Spells, Spell Mantle, Shadow Shield, Energy Immunity, Rebuke
- Level 8: Bigby's Clenched Fist, Mass Blindness/Deafness, Premonition, Greater Spell Breach, Antipathy, Mind Blank
- Level 9: Energy Drain, Bigby's Crushing Hand, Weird, Mordeknainen's Disjunction, Power Word:Kill, Spell Mantle
There's enough variety to have at least three BK concepts (self-buffed tank only, disabler/antimage or 2nd arcane -this one expecially good for ely/abo/abyss-) without sacrificing too much.