Shifter Build

[Mister Pin]

After looking over the builds posted, i have yet to decide on which shifter forms are best. I am looking to make a shifter with anarch subby, going eventually to hells and abyss. I know there are a lot of

players out there who have shifter toons, and would greatly appreciate any/all input you could give.

Please, i am not opening this thread to start arguments on " this form is better cause", I would just like opinions from as many that are willing to take the time to post so i may get a better idea on how

they work.

Thanks for your time! Looking forward to all your input. Pin

[Yojimbo]

My top 2 picks are Construct and Undead a shifter should be able to get 2 forms of choice. Construct is solid offenses form and then Undead gives death magic but also gives you a form with a GS ability.

[desocupado]

For hells, Iron Golem (construct) is very desirable.
Construct is also mildly decent in abyss with Stone Golem (think of it as SR ignoring Reverse gravity) and Marut (chain).
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This leaves the other focus open.... Let's get an overview:

Humanoid - Grants the ability to do Mortal Strike as Drow, Inflict vulnerabilities as Lizard and throw traps as Kobold (on top of several tank types - best with a gear with OC/DC Unnarmed)

Dragon - Painfully huge, Tough the elemental breath damage would be a handy along with construct - however tend to be overclassed by arcane evocation caster (since you need to morph to change damage type, you lose several rounds and damage - very low melee damage)

Outsider - The one I picked after playing trough hells the first time. Damage types don't overlap much with construct (has acid, sonic, cold, fire, positive). Mordron's Laser is very good underwater,
Raksha's near unlimited claps have their uses. Slaad's magic damage / confusion immunity aura and Leonal song/fear immunity aura have their uses in a few places at abyss. The High AC with Leonal is handy sometimes.

Undead - Very party friendly with Baelhorn's CL buff and banshee's aura. The SR ignoring Level drain touch is very welcome in abyss (and hells). The near unlimited Wail of Banshee (without SR check) and dominate/daze gaze are good against susceptible targets. Risen lord offers very good melee dps IF you have BAB 16+

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What to consider:

"Ability mage" is a trap concept. It's quite easy to retain some decent tanking ability with full DC (check my build). What you need is synergy between class breakdown and shapes.
Choose between BAB 16 (and at least either Risen lord or Humanoid) or Monk 1 (Demonflesh golem or Leonal) otherwise you'll waste all melee potential.
|-->For example: Monk 1 splash with construct + undead works (if you can't instant kill/disable, you just bash mobs with Demonflesh golem)


"Tanking" is best done with Humanoid, Dragon or Leonal (Outsider) due Str/Dex/Ac combination. However, the best melee damage lies in Risen Lord (High Str/Two handed weapon) and Construct (Unarmed + Wisdom mod for damage)
|-->If you don't care at all about tanking prowess, you are better of making a Sorcerer instead. It's a very versatile class that don't lose time shifting an unshifting

PL, CL and SR:
A monk splash costs PL - thus reduces AC/Str/Dex potential sligthly.
The ranger splash (usually 5 for an extra feat) just reduces CL, meaning real spells get weaker, and skill do less overall damage - good For Humanoid Bad for Outsider and Dragon (to a lesser extend)

[hfb]

Hey, thanks for out bidding me on that anarch book!

Yojimbo nailed it. I would add that the LD, posi-Fods, and sonic (no SR check unlike Rak) from UD are top notch. The empower ability from Baelnorn, is imho under utilized/undervalued.

I put OS a close-ish third and don't even consider Draggie as a viable option due to the unplayability they inflict on other players.

It sounds like you are making an ability mage and so humanoid will be of limited value to you.

W/ anarch, you can get WS, UD, Construct, and OS maxed along with all 10 GW. It costs you everything, but it is a very nice package.

And thanks again for out bidding me. ^_^

Happy shifting to you!

[CataclysmicDeath]

My own shifter is a Construct/Undead Shifter, Since I used a book to get one of those Forms I also have Wildshape as well, so far I've yet to find a run where this toon can't be immensely useful.

Between those three forms you have literally any situation from Beetle Cave to Nessus/Prince Fight covered that you can possibly come across and it gives you great coverage for Aboleths/Ely also.

Having said that the other forms do have their uses as well but those would be my favourites.

Cata

[Yojimbo]

Yes I would think to go with like Cata the reliance on Epode(sp?) for the last form but it requires having Wildshape which is just a generally useful form. I don't want to say the other forms aren't good or very handy and it does depend what your goal is which I suspect is an ability shifter and less of a tank shifter.

[hfb]

I hope this is not a derail, but here goes.

"Can also tank" doesn't strike me as a reason to opt for either shifter over sorc or for monk/rngr AB. CL is key for all casters, including shifters.

Ignoring SR a good deal of the time makes shifters notably different and often times superior to sorcs. Basically never needing to rest is also a point in the shifter's favor. Also, there are tricks in the shifter bag that just aren't available to sorc: a huge slate of immunities, construct poison, aoe stoning, infinite GS, empower other, and tons more. Sorcs are awesome, but that doesn't mean that shifters aren't. Imho, sorcs and shifters are beautifully balanced.

HG unflinchingly rewards the top end and the sacrifices needed to get there. Shifters are no exception. I'd go one monk splash before I'd put any levels at all into ranger. I'd splash bard before I'd splash monk. Shifter skills are the worst, except for SD and maybe WM. Having elf and a well skilled splash is worth it and bard, rngr, and monk all get you what you need. Bard also comes with UMD and rngr lacks tumble. Pure shifter is dicey imho.

[chirality]

one good bonus of construct is amni imm, other than a few mobs this also allows you to easily shift/deshift to run across rivers, very useful not just in tia but also hades and PoP

course if you have gear then you won't miss it, just wanted to point out though that it's a really nice perk

some wildshape forms are very useful in LLs, perhaps not necessarily as much in all endgame areas but just wanted to throw this out there

beholder--nice cold dmg (antimagic cone of course useful but only if you are very careful with it)

dusa--stoning ignores SR and mantles

and of course manticore spikes

overall construct outsider undead all 3 are very nice, I think it's best to choose on not just personal preference but also what runs you plan on spending the most time in, especially if you're going to be farming certain runs or doing them a lot

[desocupado]

Well, let me sell humanoid and dragon then (all focus are great actually)

Humanoid
Pretty good AC but passable AB - gets 1 extra attack with LFF and merges weapon buffs
- Very helpful in bosses with lizard vulnerability infliction
Mortal strike against trash mobs with Drow (who is also near uni)
Kobold and kenku have their uses against Dex checks
- Sahugian can be used for two handed piercing damage

Dragon
Well, the size it isn't as bad as it used to be
AC and AB are pretty good, but melee damage is atrociously low (it doesn't merge weapons buffs nor gets extra attack with LFF)
The elemental damage is pretty high with high DC - equivalent with a Level IX spell - (breath does pack a good punch with d10, specially for bosses and tough mobs)
It really can stand on it's own against stat check (very High Str and Dex)
Very effective at KD with wing buffet (same dc as a level IX spell)

[chirality]

I love your comment on "ability mage is a trap concept"

That is quote-worthy

Shifter is too versatile and flexible to get trapped into thinking an ability mage can't also have good tanking options

Humanoid is really great for a "tank" shifter, one thing in particular I will say after watching in action is Kenku with abyss weapon and OC/DC, this damage output can be very impressive...archery isn't considered much outside AAs and zen but on a shifter with the flexibility to dish out good ranged attacks when desired, this can be really nice when you want it...merging a good melee weapon + buffs into archery should not be underestimated (with many caster buffs in party it gets even better), especially when you also have other humanoid melee forms as options, humanoid shifter can be a lot of fun and definitely fun to party with, this tank always has something to bring to the table and can rapidly adapt as needed to instakill, tank, dish out melee damage, serve as artillery

However there is a line to be drawn in terms of specializing in one type of play...like hfb said the best rewards are reserved for the most sacrifice, so really I think you should start with "ability mage" or "tank" concept and go from there...especially one must consider that many specials are only available at FF3, such as vamp GS (to give one example)

PLs really opened up good options for shifters with more feats and higher stats, plus the PL shifter feats, this helps squeeze in few more points of a given statistic (save, AB, AC, FF, etc) where needed

[condude]

I personally like the humanoid/wildshape/undead combo. I chose humanoid for the drow mortal strikes, the kobold traps, and the lizard lashes. Although it might seem an inferior choice to, say, construct, the variety of insta-kills is very fun, along with the tankishness of some of the forms.

[CataclysmicDeath]

This is a doc I did a while ago, it needs updating for Abyss, but if you are planning to go through Hells it shows what some of the forms can do for Shifters and may be of some help deciding how you want to build it.

docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiyJNTq56gqvdFJsNWNLU01INURhVGhHbTVQVWxqOXc#gid=0

Hmm am thinking of moving it to Wiki tbh but no idea how heh. Might post another thread to ask ;p

Cata

[desocupado]

May 1, 2013 12:22:00 GMT CataclysmicDeath said:

Hmm am thinking of moving it to Wiki tbh but no idea how heh. Might post another thread to ask ;p

Cata

Well, we can add the shifter information on the monster data - i.e. their vulnerabilities (stoning, level drain) even if they have high SR.
Something like: "Excruxiarchs" have high SR, but are susceptible to stoning.

[Mister Pin]

First off - WOW ! I was hoping to get some info about shifters but, WOW. Thanks to ALL of you for so much info. This is really more than i expected, and i am extremely grateful for the time/effort you ALL put into this post.

I am still working out the hows/whats on how i am to use the shifter abilities/forms etc on the hot keys, let alone what to even use form wise, but this really REALLY has helped immensely.

Thank you Cata for the spreadsheet- i already bookmarked it in my NWN folder, which is like my "bible" to me, lol, and i plan to put to good use.

And hfb, if i EVER come across another Anarch book you will be notified immediately.


Hopefully this weekend with some peace and quiet i will get myself organized and make this toon, and really looking forward to it.


One last note; of all the forms, the one i really do not care for, ( and i KNOW there are others who agree and but for one reason really ), that is the dragon form. Its size to "work" around is aggravating to say the least- esp. as a zen trying to CS something around,or just to get past the dang scaly thing to engage mobs can be downright frustrating. But even now i am still considering it, heh.



Thanks again to all of you, it means a lot. See you on the game! Mike- aka, Pin

[Fade]

Ya know, I have to echo Mister Pin's wow.. I noticed this thread and followed it hoping to learn a little more about shifters. I picked up an Anarch a while back and only recently started a shifter. It's been a learning experience. Been having a lot of fun with the toon and experimenting a lot. So reading this has been really informative. Cata's spreadsheet is great, bookmarked it myself. As well as everyone's input. I love this crowd sourcing of info.. It's always good to read.