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Post by kaezar on Jun 18, 2013 22:39:38 GMT
rogues are not treasure hunters, they are treasure stealers, and hoarders. big difference Star sighting! Long time no see. Take care Kaezar
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Post by magecat on Jun 20, 2013 11:07:49 GMT
Just because we know the mechanics behind the scenes doesn't make loot popping different from the PnP scenario of a Bard using his Bardic lore while sifting through a pile of debris, a dead corpse, a puddle of goo, and etc to identify the valuable loot another less informed player would otherwise miss. I'm not looking to argue and debate it as it is clearing heading down a road towards an argument over semantics. For a Rogue being a "professional" treasure hunter that is a misnomer really they are more adept at treasure hunting than other classes due to the nature of the class being one who is often motivated by greed and things that shine and glitter but with out the great knowledge of a Bard a Rogue might pass up a great item simply because it doesn't look valuable. This is just about world building and semantics but still I'm not seeing a reason why a Bard should not get a better score when the Bard is also burdened with the chore of having to cast a spell to enhance his abilities each time he checks. If I considered any change to this I would allow both classes a bonus based on Lore skill with an added bonus to Bards for casting TS, perhaps changing the equation, both classes get +1 for free at a minimum level requirement w/ or w/o and points in Lore. That would be a very complicated way to get a bonus of +1 to no more than +4 but likely keep a +3 cap resulting in probably poorer pops due to lack of investment in skills or spells for the given classes. I have heard the Bard/Lore argument several times, but, if you are going to insist on applying those types of anecdotal logics and be honest about it, you MUST include the fact that Appraise is a class skill for Rogues in valuing the effectiveness of a character. This means that, while a Bard is academically knowledgeable about loot, a Rogue has a practical understanding of the value of things.
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Post by kaezar on Jun 20, 2013 22:48:02 GMT
Let's not derail this discussion too much, guys. Make another thread to discuss rogues x bards as looter (is it the new ninjas x pirates?). To bring the discussion back to topic, a question I didn't get well the first time. Here is a better answer I think. ^ That right there is what I'm the most interested in. How does that work? There is also a bit of confusion in my experience even amongst longtime "vet" or "pro" players about exactly which rarity tier different consumables are in--i.e. "that's a BUR drop? Or is it UR?" Well, in hells, a BUR drop is a BUR drop. You'll get a bur item, a bur book or a craft item, although the last 2 just very rarely (about 1 in 20 of one of the two last appearing, per bur). In other areas, you get this case 11:// other 55+ areas ..if (nRarity <= PERCENT_CHANCE_COMMON) {//common ....sRes = GetRandomResrefLoot40Common(); nRareNumber = 1; } else if (nRarity <= (PERCENT_CHANCE_COMMON + 25)) {//uncommon - 82 ....sRes = GetRandomResrefLoot40Uncommon(TRUE); nRareNumber = 2; ....if (Random(100) < 15) return CreateAugmenter(oContainer, nRareNumber - 1, oOpener); } else if (nRarity > 95) {//ultrarare 4% .... if (nRarity > 100 && !Random(2)) { ........sRes = GetRandomResrefLootBeyondUltraRare(); nRareNumber = 5; ....} else { ........sRes = GetRandomResrefLootUltraRare(); nRareNumber = 4; ....if (Random(100) < 15) return CreateAugmenter(oContainer, nRareNumber - 1, oOpener); ....} } else {//rare ....if (Random(3)) { ........sRes = GetRandomResrefLoot40RareLL(); nRareNumber = 3; ....} else { ........sRes = GetRandomResrefLootHellUseable(); nRareNumber = 3; ....} ....if (Random(100) < 15) return CreateAugmenter(oContainer, nRareNumber - 1, oOpener); ..} break; Now at the begining, I thought those other 55+ areas that I sublined were Abyss, Elysium, Oinos and Aboleths. Which I thought strange because the condition I underlined seems to make that at least 1/2 of the burs rolled become UR's instead. After looking up a little, I got some doubts. It may be rona, the pit and others like that. Not sure. There are some sort of variable on the maps that say which kind of area they are, but damnfino how to look them up
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 21, 2013 4:45:30 GMT
Sorry, I never got round to answering you about which were the Loot 11 areas. The problem is that that data is hard to collate. Each area has 3 files associated with it - .are, .git, and .gic (off the top of my head, don't shoot me if they're slightly different extensions). The Loot var is stored in the .git file, and the area name, resref, and other identifying information are stored in the .are file. The tool I have to sift data, Moneo, doesn't allow me an easy way to associate those two different file types in a loop, meaning I can't quickly spew out that data. Instead, here's a quick sampling, culled by using the (much slower) toolset: Elemental Planes (Deep) 9 Elysium 10 Abyss 10 Hive 9 Locathah 9 Myconids 9 Oinos 10 Pit of Moliation 9 Rona 11 Toyshop 9
Funky
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Post by chirality on Jun 21, 2013 5:03:51 GMT
Cool
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Post by Torin on Jun 21, 2013 5:30:04 GMT
Maybe people would visit deepest Elemental Planes if it would be a 10 area. Just a thought.
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Post by kaezar on Jun 21, 2013 15:52:28 GMT
Area 10 are fugue areas. It is good to have a place where you can get +16 gems and LL loot that is NOT a fugue area.
What I would really like, not only for Elemental planes, but also for Oinos, are more maps. Hell I would volunteer to design/make then.
About areas, now I know where to find them, I might try to look them up, just for curiousity's sake. Funky's completely right, there is no way to look up an specific word instance on the toolset. If you don't know where it appears beforehand, you are screwed.
Take care kaezar
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Post by tank on Jun 21, 2013 16:04:43 GMT
random rarespawn boss in oinos would be interesting
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Post by hjshotgun on Jul 21, 2013 18:17:19 GMT
rogues are not treasure hunters, they are treasure stealers, and hoarders. big difference Hey Star sighting ..... Cool thread btw. I always knew that bard TS was a must use. If Drunken Boaster ever saw me not use TS he would blow his lid lol As far as the rogue vs bard poping loot I belive it is more about options. When TS came about it was when bards were already doing most of the banking. A lot has changed since TS was first implemented and that might be why rouges now have a TS type ablity. I am glad I have a pure rogue.
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Post by desocupado on Dec 29, 2017 19:49:37 GMT
TS and rogue bonus just reduce the immersion and make it "gamey".
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 3:50:25 GMT
TS and rogue bonus just reduce the immersion and make it "gamey". Tags, inter-server shouts, multi-boxing, enemies that appear nearby after running over triggers, touching a pile of rocks or a dead body which transforms into a bag with an item (or is auto-sold and immediately grants gold)... but Treasure Scent of all things is what ruins immersion?
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Post by diemex on Dec 30, 2017 15:25:02 GMT
I always wanted to try a necromancer......
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Post by desocupado on Dec 30, 2017 16:24:21 GMT
Necromancers are cool, my favorite D2 class. But the point was more along the lines of
* It moves the focus from the action/fight and to a "do this to get more loot".
I mean this game is an organized fantasy murder simulator. While doing rogue duties or casting bard (oddly enough) grants more loots - it detracts from the action and creates downtime.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 17:24:27 GMT
I think it doesn’t ruin it at all. Looking for treasure and spoils along a journey makes total sense. Having individuals for whatever reason who are best acclimated to such a behavior also make the most sense.
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Post by jackson on Mar 2, 2021 10:23:51 GMT
This post was really interesting. Thank you for sharing so much information, it really helps understand what you are doing. Is there any chance that the nss that you mentioned here is still available somewhere? The link is not working for some reason.
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