Nura's Pure Rogue

[nura]

This is my pure rogue build Id be interested in some pointers as I built her after looking over the various rogue build on here.


Race - Gnome / Lycan figured lycan was my best bet for a rogue build and the gnome entry said they get extra skill points in legendary something a rogue cant ever have enough of.
 
After applying gnome and Lycan stat alterations her stats looked like this

Str 10
Dex 18
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 6

1st level feats

I gained Dodge, Improved initiative, Small stature and all the usual gnome extra feats. 
I chose Luck of heroes

1st level concentrated on these skills

Disable trap, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Open lock, Search, Set Trap, Spot, Use Magic Device, Appraise, Tumble.

2nd level - Evasion

3rd level - uncanny dodge I, 2d6 sneak, Weapon proficiency martial.

4th level - Dex +1

5th level - 3d6 sneak 

6th level - Blindfight, Uncanny dodge II

7th level - 4d6 sneak

8th level - Int +1

9th level - Ambidexterity, 5d6 sneak

10th level - Crippling strike

11th level - 6d6 sneak, Uncanny dodge III

12th level - Int +1, Weapon finesse

13th level - Skill mastery, 7d6 sneak

14th level - Uncanny dodge IV

15th level - 8d6 sneak, Two weapon fighting

16th level - Slippery mind +1 Dex

17th level - 9d6 sneak, Uncanny dodge V

18th level - Improved two weapon fighting

19th level - Opportunist, 10d6 sneak

20th level - Uncanny dodge VI+, +1 Dex

21st level - Improved sneak attack I, 11d6 sneak

22nd level -

23rd level  - 12d6 sneak,

24th level - +1 Dex, Great Dexterity I, Improved sneak attack II

25th level - 13d6 sneak,

26th level

27th level - 14d6 sneak, Great Dexterity II

28th level - +1 Dex, Imrpoved sneak attack III

29th level - 15d6 sneak,

30th level - Great dexterity III
 
31st level - 16d6 sneak,

32nd level - +1 Dex, Improved sneak attack IV

33rd level - 17d6 sneak, Great Dexterity IV

34th level -

35th level - 18d6 sneak,

36th level - +1 Dex, Improved evasion, Self concealment I

37th level - 19d6 sneak,

38th level -

39th level - 20d6 sneak, Self concealment II

40th level - +1 Dex, Self concealment III

Legendary feats taken

Defensive roll
Epic Dodge
Self concealment IV
Self Concealment V


all stat boosts into dex so stats as of now are

Str 10
Dex 37
Con 16
Int 20
Wis 10
Cha 6

all the above skills except listen(50) are maxed out at (54) additionally added persuade (14), craft armour (22), craft weapon (22).

My kits pretty good got the cruamros trickfoot armour, ryponean sorting gloves, masks mischief and guildmasters glint for weapons currently using aftershock mace and sumulacre splitter.

Attack bonus 62 and armour class of 103

[Deleted]

It really depends on what you want from the rogue (traps/locks, bbod, TS or glass cannon), but you might want to consider the following:

Going for SC5 and ED burns a lot of feats for a defensive build, but with 24 str (assuming +14 from gear) you will get KD'd and spanked in the end game. (edit: AC103 is unusable btw even desert will eat you alive)

You take sneaks so I assume you hope to damage stuff, but I see no WF feats - your AB is going to be painfully low. In fact you go ITWF reducing ab further (-2, -2 at best).

Max listen and drop BF. Listen 60 = BF, so unless you get deafened it's a wasted feat. Listen cuts conceal - if you want to hit anything interesting with any certainty you need to max it.

I would not bother maxing UMD unless you have a specific piece of gear in mind you need it for. You need 34 to read any scroll, and perhaps a couple extra points to allow for area penalties.

Setting traps - never seen it used in a useful way - takes too long and bores party (imho)

Appraise - drop it if you are skill tight.

Concentration - you need to cover conc 60 to have fun in some abyss areas (as I have found to my cost)

You don't list discipline, but it is critical for end game tanks - and not a class skill for rogues, it can be with Blooded and LSA Discpline. Or you can take Elf able learner route.

You don't list parry, but it is extremely useful, crit hit dmg reduction and imm to some death attacks if 100+

OK enough for now, someone else can have a go

[Yojimbo]

First how are you getting 37 Final Dex?

I see your stat points going like this from your posted build which is a little tough to read might work a touch on formating

Stating: 18
Pre-LL Stats: +8
Great Dexterity Feat: +4
Legendary Stats: +10
Legendary Rogue Bonus: +4
Total Base: 44

This should be enough to hit stuff and provide good AC in Light Armor, maybe even can go Robed, but with out any WF and the Dual Wield penalty you won't end up hitting enemies very often. I think you are trying to do too much with the toon it is tough to fit all of those things in with a BUR and I'm not sure it can be done though I suspect it can. I would also say you will be a glass paper wad cannon becuase other than when you manage to get off a sneak attack your AC will not be enough to avoid a hit your concealment also won't really be sufficient to rely on and damage on this will likely be fairly poor. I love the principle idea here I suspect something can be done to get roughly want you want but there I believe will be some sacrifices made to get to a working final product. I know I go through many revisions on most of my builds as I like to try and go outside the box a bit so its an idea worth shooting for but will take many edits. I will say this build is likely to have an abundance of skills with 20 Base INT, Rogue Bonus SKill Points, and Gnome Bonus SKill Points.

[hfb]

Elf able-learner won't help w/ discipline unless you splash a discipline having class. Human gets you 1/2 the skill points and a first level feat, which can be used to get blooded for LSA discipline.

The 60 on Conc is total, not ranks. 30-ish ranks are usually enough to get you there. Buffed out, you probably want to have 95-ish AB, but will probably have a bit less as a Lycan. AC starts getting viable around 125 at the low end. For a dexer, 130+ is probably where you'd want to be with some slack provided by concealment.

I didn't see saves listed or ST feats besides LoH and as a rogue, you'll probably want to spend some feats. I'd aim for 65/65/60 w/ a rogue with slippery mind. IE will take care of a lot of the dmg headed your way from evo style spells, but those are not the only bits covered by reflex, so I'd keep the goal at 65 even w/ IE.

The rogue special based on sneak attack feats is defensive in nature--enemies hit less hard--and thus the ISA feats might be overkill.

+1 on the WF line of feats, they are absolutely necessary, imho, even GWF really, since even with the rogue bonus from INT, AB on rogues suffer and as a pure rogue you only get 3 base attacks/round. Making each count is key.

Going with a two-handed weapon on a small toon fixes the AB penalties from dual wielding and increases your damage curve. It also makes weapon finesse a less desirable option since you can't finesse large weapons.

I give ED a thumbs up and if you do go str based, the dex requirement of 25 will help keep you on your feat w/ dex checks.

SC is so very tempting, and so very expensive. If you think you might be able to party with casters who can put camo or displacement on you, then perhaps you can forgo SC. Hide skill is required for camo and reliability is an issue.

If your goal is to max out sneak damage and you wish to stay dex based, a modified Click build might be your best option.

If we had more on what you wish to have your rogue do, we might be able to help more. I love rogues, but they are cruel, cruel mistresses. It is quite tough to put together a viable rogue build. I have yet to do so and it is a pet project of mine; perhaps my standards are too high. I bid you happy hunting and may your share your wisdom so that my rogue(s) might benefit. I love and hate the very hard uncracked nut that is the rogue on HG.

[Deleted]

Sept 25, 2013 17:11:58 GMT hfb said:

Elf able-learner won't help w/ discipline unless you splash a discipline having class. Human gets you 1/2 the skill points and a first level feat, which can be used to get blooded for LSA discipline.

My take on this Paragon Able Learner was that you could probably put up with 41 if you had some decent strength bonus - 90 disc blocks some of the annoying checks, and you could just make 127 on a str rogue with esf.

Whilst I did say cover 60 conc, you might want to get closer to it than 30 in skill without gear - finding 30 conc on useful tank gear is not always that easy and even a few points short in some areas can be very dull.

I'd disagree that a sneak based rogue is more defensive - it just means you are attacking something that is not pounding on you, you are probably still in the middle of it getting the love from everything else (unless you are ranged, but that is not an attractive damage option atm). If you just hang around at the edge of the battle looking for easy victims, that does not really help the party much.

I also note the build lacks shield prof - meaning there is no fall-back tank option (yes, you can get it from gear, but a) you have to be lucky or 60 for such gear and b) it is yet another non-negotiable equipment slot. Also if the feat is on the wrong gear slot, you get the comedy of having the shield unequipped on a re-log, which can sting if it's a crash mid-fight.

[chirality]

Well, I wouldn't worry too much about Conc quite yet, especially if it's tight to fit in. Other than low LL run of Dulv (voidwraith conc vs. death), the areas in which Conc checks are problematic are quite a bit later in the game, and it shouldn't really be expected to have met all such requirements as this for a more "beginner" build (erm, this rogue doesn't even have shields after all ). Para nupperibo in hell could potentially be an actual issue but DC 40 isn't all too bad. 60 comes into play for abos (mu spore, and witchlight also I think has 60 (?) check), but I would have hard time picturing this toon being relied on as a solid tank in abo until it's quite stronger and likely reinced. In abyss I'm not sure at all which various mobs may cause Conc but one very annoying check I am familiar with (eko infestation) is curable via restoration (pearl etc), it can be completely debilitating to casters until cured (forces check vs. fail casting spell) but shouldn't be much issue for a tank I think? (or maybe it procs vs. things other than spells, not sure there, doubt it though)

Anyway long story short, if you can spare a few points, even 15, 20ish, it may well be worth for voidwraiths if you do dulv (check is low and after +mod from Con bonus, gear, song, not hard to match); of course that run is pretty useless, bad xp, absolutely nothing worth using for most toons, you don't need a soul jar, so most people skip dulv anyway I think (maybe to come back later as bored level 74 tag hunting).

I think lemon is definitely giving 100% solid advice about trying to obtain high Conc mod for these frustrating checks in later-game runs, but realistically it's not something you should need to worry about very much at this point, and I think for the cost, the benefit you reap is not quite as good as if those 30-40 points had been placed into another skill of more immediate and universal value (pay close attention to other builds and suggestions for "requirements for tanks" : as others have pointed out you are missing some critical components in OP build. Even though rogues have ton of skill points to burn, you also have tons of skills needing to be filled, so make sure you cover it all

[arek]

nura now has a good rogue build, using Human/Wraith instead of Gnome/Lycan, and seems to be enjoying playing it. Many thanks to my guildmates, particularly Bad, for the few points of advice they gave me while creating the build.

--Arek