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Post by wollstonecraft on May 9, 2014 21:19:20 GMT
I am thinking to try a palemaster with atomie subrace, since it would give me water breathing, and walking on quicksand. However I am not sure if the lich appearance would cover the butterfly wings. It is hard to look evil with a set of butterfly wings, lol. Any other wings would be fine, but there are not to many subraces with an intelligence bonus, and levitation or walking on quicksand. You don't *have to* undergo the lich transformation to be a Palemaster. Becoming a lich is a little bonus thing PMs get which allows them to use a couple of (only relatively) useful abilities. In fact, there was a time when it seemed rather en vogue to forego lich transformation, particularily for those already using cool-looking races, like Illithid. I had a Spelljammer PM for a time who remained halfling just for flavour. On the other hand, small-sized arcane casters get the short end of the stick (/pun) on spell slots. They can't wield both a staff and a shield, so they get relegated to either a staff and an empty hand or a torch (like the Dachy book)and a caster shield. Both of those options mean fewer spellslots than a medium-sized race. Why stature needs to have such an impact on power is beyond me. It's a real disservice to build diversity. -WSCraft |
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Post by Mister Pin on May 10, 2014 18:23:40 GMT
Yeah, that would be a good subrace, if I could find the book, lol. I've been playing this server for years and still don't have that one! Hmmm, maybe you need to get on more runs, or farm oinos  |
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Post by Li'l Rose on May 14, 2014 23:07:43 GMT
Ok, I am playing a sorcerer palemaster, and using fallen angel subrace, with elf as base race. I'm making her a melee caster, with necromancy focus, and dual wielding rapiers with the rapier wit feat. It has been fun so far, though she is a little fragile, but still only level 12.
However before I mess it up, I have a few questions.
I have three ideas for building her, and keeping palemaster as control class. My first option is 21 palemaster, and 19 sorcerer. This gives me two level 9 spells, and 24 caster levels from palemaster.
My second option is 20 palemaster, 19 sorcerer, and 1 paladin. This will cost me some caster levels, but it will get me lots of saves if I make her lawful good.
My third option is 19 palemaster, 18 sorcerer, and 3 paladin. This gives me the divine feats from fallen angel subrace, and fighter BAB from tensers transformation spell. However I would lose one level 9 spell.
I am liking the third option, but I am wondering about the full crit immunity. Does this require 20 palemaster base levels, or does it include legendary levels?
Also I have some questions about the lich transformation. From what I have read, the only benefit is the lichsong ability. Are there any other benefits for becoming a lich? Also are these 20 levels required to become a lich, base levels, or does that include legendary levels?
Lastly for the water breathing ability, does this require the lich transformation, or is there a certain number of palemaster levels required?
Sorry for so many questions, but I could not find the answers from looking around the forum.
Thank you for any answers you may have, and yeah, any build suggestions are quite welcome. However please remember that I am looking for having a fun time playing. |
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Post by condude on May 14, 2014 23:50:45 GMT
Don't PMs have to be evil?
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Post by Twilight Semner on May 15, 2014 0:36:55 GMT
20 preLL palemaster levels are required for both lich transformation (which grants water breathing) and full crit immunity.
Evil is only required for certain palemaster spells and I believe the use of certain items.
I think if you're going to go melee you ought to take the three paladin splash but the big problem is you won't get full caster level on Tensers no matter what you splash. Unfortunately pale master just doesn't lend itself to melee very well. There may be a way but my guess is it would be very gear, subrace and level intensive.
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Post by chirality on May 15, 2014 2:20:07 GMT
sorc pm is broken unless you have an endgame drop which binds on useit's not even worth considering PM melee can be done but it's probably a bit gear/demi dependent for most build types i could think of, so really here unlike most servers (where pm is uber for tanks) it's for casters "only" rapier wit sorc in general is a bit silly as well unless you have some insane gear and x2 to make up for the inherent fails of such builds, course unlike sorc pm or pm tank it's at least something i see some nubs run around with (and supposedly it does some useful function in party, or goes on runs anyway) if you're interested to play a caster a sorc is a lot of fun and will be quite educational, if you want a pm do a wizard (loot lich type is a perennial winner) if you want a tank do something a bit more "established" (i.e. no weird experimental thing that severely lacks some important attribute), but don't make a tank anyway...abcd, learn it and love it |
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Post by Torin on May 15, 2014 5:24:55 GMT
This one is a funny tank build: wisdom based Staffmaster Wise Staff (17 Wizard, 22 Weapon Master, 1 Monk)It works very good until hells where STR and DEX checks are common. Reincernate it into a STR-uni variant with a better subrace if you get one. |
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Post by chainlink on May 15, 2014 6:11:55 GMT
Sorcerer PMs suck big time unless you have access to the staff from Aboleths that lets you convert Sorc to PM levels.
Go with a loot Lich build (several are posted).
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Post by Li'l Rose on May 15, 2014 10:01:54 GMT
Well, that staff does look nice, but I was using rapiers. From what I can see, I have a choice of level 9 spells and weak melee, or much better melee, but no level 9 spells. What I am trying to do is find something I can do when all the creatures are death immune. I am guessing that using spells from other schools will not have much effect on the higher level creatures.
I tried a wizard palemaster already, and did not like it much. Perhaps if there was a weapon I could use that uses intelligence for attack bonus. Most of my low level spells were buffs, so I could not do much, other than trying to hit things.
Thank you guys for helping me out. I can see this build is probably not going to work. Maybe I will try a similar build with just sorcerer and paladin, and focusing on necromancy spells, and tensers for melee with rapiers.
I am not very good with abbreviations, so I am not sure what is abcd. I do have a bard, but she is a dex bard, with a pair of sai for melee. As you can see, I like to be different, lol. I guess I will always be like that. I have been playing about 4 years now, and I have never made a fighter with a longsword and shield. I much prefer dual wielding, even if it means dying more often. |
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Post by theultimatesin on May 15, 2014 10:12:26 GMT
Make a caster that just casts or a melee that just melees. Going melee caster hybrid just means you are both bad at melee and bad at casting. imho.
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Post by chainlink on May 15, 2014 11:40:54 GMT
I remember 'The Blob' which was a Bard/XDD/PM build that had 100% immunity to one element and full critical hit immunity which was planned to be a soak tank however it got nerfed.
Basically sin is correct making non quasiclass melee/caster builds is not advisable due to the factors he has mentioned.
If you want to make a dual wielder make a ranger as you'll potentially have a very good ac even when using two weapons and the damage output can be decent as well not to mention you can instakill favoured enemies that are not crit immune.
As you've already mentioned you have access to Fallen Angel this makes a decent ranger as the free Wisdom will get you to the 14 requirement to cast all your spells so you can spend your stat points elsewhere, you could of course make the most of the Wisdom and make a Zen ranger, these end up with very high ac/ab and called shot dc and three of the class specific bows are relatively easy to obtain.
Also don't worry too much about your power at low levels always look at the big picture will the build be useful at level 60 (and beyond)? If the answer is no you're unlikely to get invited on end game runs (well more than once at least) as this is generally what everybody is aiming for.
Reincarnation gives you the ability to play something useful at low levels and then reincarnate it before you achieve immortality into something you'd like to play in legendary level runs (but wouldn't have been fun to level up to 40) as it is much easier to swap classes before you go immo.
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Post by Torin on May 15, 2014 15:20:40 GMT
I am not very good with abbreviations, so I am not sure what is abcd. ABCD The four core caster classes: arcane, bard, cleric, and druid From our wiki - wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Abbreviations |
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Post by Li'l Rose on May 16, 2014 0:22:09 GMT
Well, the gnomish inventer quasiclass does sound fun, but I am curious about how well does it do. I see that it uses dex for most things, but how much intelligence will I need, and will I have a full set of wizard spells to cast? I do not really need the spells, I am just curious, lol.
My other choice would be herald of storms, but it seems to be a balance of sorcerer and druid. This seems to me the same problem as a melee caster. Too much charisma means weak druid spells, and too much wisdom means weak sorcerer spells. It does sound fun though, and lots of free feats.
I may also try Torin's staffmaster build. I'm sure I could do well with that one, as long as I do not forget to watch my hit points, lol. |
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Post by condude on May 16, 2014 0:54:53 GMT
Heralds are really good. The perk is that for the herald spells, either charisma or wisdom counts, whichever is higher. They're extremely good at dishing out damage, although slightly squishy. I've seen one in action a lot, and it often tops the damage and kill charts.
Don't make a GI, I have one, and it's lackluster. It's HC, so I can reincarnate it into something better. My main qualm is that it doesn't have enough bombs per rest.
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Post by desocupado on May 16, 2014 1:08:46 GMT
Heralds are really good. The perk is that for the herald spells, either charisma or wisdom counts, whichever is higher. They're extremely good at dishing out damage, although slightly squishy. I've seen one in action a lot, and it often tops the damage and kill charts. Don't make a GI, I have one, and it's lackluster. It's HC, so I can reincarnate it into something better. My main qualm is that it doesn't have enough bombs per rest. Squishy is a serious drawback for a starter toon. Cleric is the safest bet by a long shot. Druid becomes quite bulky with a Monk level (and the bonus with shield + light armor) Bane Knight is somewhat reasonable (it isn't as gear dependent as most tanks - only staffmaster is less gear dependent, but is frail) |
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