Improved Saving Throws

[wollstonecraft]

Hello,

How does the Improved Saving Throw property work?
I recall that it was changed to exceed the normal +20 saving throw cap, but how far can it exceed?
Or, do I recall incorrectly?
I'm curious because of stuff like this:
Attempted Link and this A Distant Threat

-WSCraft

[theultimatesin]

I'm guessing new areas are going to apply significant penalties to saves.

[wollstonecraft]

Yeah. I assumed that too.
I'm more interested in the mechanic as it exists.
What exactly is a save vs. fire, or a save vs. chaos?
Are these saves made against spells? If so, how does a Reflex save for half damage (against a DBF) differ from a save vs. fire?

-WSCraft

[fallenwizard]

Reflex save is your universal save and is in place vs all reflex saves. Save vs fire will be used on effects that are tagged as "BUURN!" in Funky's toolset, if and only if, your base reflex (or perhaps in some odd occasion will/fort) + bonus save vs fire exceeds base + improved universal save. Universal save is capped to 20 and specific save can go up to 25 or 30, cant recall which was the cap. But this requires your gear to have say 3x added save vs fire, 1 for +10, 1 for +8 and last one for +7, netting you a total of +25 vs fire. Having +20 universal and +5vs fire wont give you any extra protection vs fire.

I think specific increased ref/will/fort can go to +25 and specific save, such as vs fire/death can go +30, but someone who has read notes in past 1½ years could confirm that.

Edit: To be more clear with this:
You're lvl 40 rogue, base reflex save = 12 from 1-20 and 10 from 21-40 totaling 22 + 13 ability mod from 36 dexterity = 35 base reflex.

Then your gear gives you +20 improved universal saves. You'll make reflex check of 55 +d20 vs DFB for half damage.

Then you find gear pieces that adds tons of bonus reflex save. Say you find +50 bonus reflex save on your items. The same roll would now be 60 (35 base + 25 (reflex cap)) +d20 vs DFB for half damage.

Then you find these uber loots that have some junk added on green such as added safe vs fire +15 on several item pieces.

This time the DFB check for half damage will be made as base 35 + 30 (bonus save vs fire) for total of 65 +d20 vs DFB.

Hope that clears it a bit

[Hercules]

May 30, 2014 8:31:52 GMT fallenwizard said:

Reflex save is your universal save and is in place vs all reflex saves. Save vs fire will be used on effects that are tagged as "BUURN!" in Funky's toolset, if and only if, your base reflex (or perhaps in some odd occasion will/fort) + bonus save vs fire exceeds base + improved universal save. Universal save is capped to 20 and specific save can go up to 25 or 30, cant recall which was the cap. But this requires your gear to have say 3x added save vs fire, 1 for +10, 1 for +8 and last one for +7, netting you a total of +25 vs fire. Having +20 universal and +5vs fire wont give you any extra protection vs fire.

I think specific increased ref/will/fort can go to +25 and specific save, such as vs fire/death can go +30, but someone who has read notes in past 1½ years could confirm that.

Edit: To be more clear with this:
You're lvl 40 rogue, base reflex save = 12 from 1-20 and 10 from 21-40 totaling 22 + 13 ability mod from 36 dexterity = 35 base reflex.

Then your gear gives you +20 improved universal saves. You'll make reflex check of 55 +d20 vs DFB for half damage.

Then you find gear pieces that adds tons of bonus reflex save. Say you find +50 bonus reflex save on your items. The same roll would now be 60 (35 base + 25 (reflex cap)) +d20 vs DFB for half damage.

Then you find these uber loots that have some junk added on green such as added safe vs fire +15 on several item pieces.

This time the DFB check for half damage will be made as base 35 + 30 (bonus save vs fire) for total of 65 +d20 vs DFB.

Hope that clears it a bit

Clear as ink...
I got dizzy reading this and had to go outside enjoying the sun !


~Herc

[Yojimbo]

I believe the Universal Save remains capped at +20 the individual Reflex, Fortitude, and Will are capped at +25 and then the specific saves(ie Save vs Fire) are capped at +30 I would have to find the details but I believe it is in one of the update posts.

[wollstonecraft]

Thanks, Fallen.
I found the update too:

2011-09-10

Hotpatch notes:

-Monster saving throws are no longer incorrectly adding their ability modifier twice.
-Saving throw bonus caps have been altered. The universal saving throw type still caps at 20, but more specific types have had their caps raised.
--Fort, Reflex, and Will saving throw bonuses now cap at 25 instead of 20.
--Specific saving throw bonuses now cap at 30 instead of 20. These include: acid, cold, death, disease, divine, electrical, fear, fire, mind-affecting, negative, poison, positive, sonic.

SO then Improved Save vs Acid would stack (to the new cap) with reflex vs acid, Negative with fort vs negative and so on.
What about Law and Chaos saves?
Are there currently spells that have a save vs Law/ Chaos? Can we expect new spells with this save? Or are these saves for the purpose of turning?

-WSCraft