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Post by Torin on Jun 2, 2014 16:54:19 GMT
Is that possible: A Paladin with maxed Charisma that works as a turner?
I'm thinking of a 39 Paladin +1 Cleric build that takes Planar turning feat, maxes charisma (and bashes turned mobs with a rapier using Rapier Wit feat).
Can that work or must turners be clerics?
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Post by tagnusd on Jun 2, 2014 17:36:11 GMT
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Post by Yojimbo on Jun 2, 2014 18:05:03 GMT
It might be easier to modify something like my CHA Rapier Wit Paladin into one or other such CHA based builds. I know there is a BG Rapier Wit Turner which also might provide a good guide for building a Paladin one. I know Smite would be tempting to have but with the WIS requirement it might not be feasible but it would provide nice bonus.
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Post by condude on Jun 2, 2014 18:40:49 GMT
I'd probably go with Half-Eladrin, because I love it, or pharlan, because of the wis. I think it is very viable, especially with a wis boost on character creation.
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Post by Yojimbo on Jun 2, 2014 19:06:59 GMT
I think to do a Turner Pharlan is the way to go with the WIS boost.
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Post by desocupado on Jun 2, 2014 21:29:40 GMT
Short answer - not worth it
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Long answer - Paladin/Bg operate at 2 less turning power - most of the time (like a cleric turner with 2 classes of splash)// hint: no cleric turner ever splashes Lacking additional debuffs (like battletide) and epic spells make you much less effective or useful than a turner cleric. // not to mention less DC/slots It's impossible to fit wisdom 25, str 40 and maximize Charisma - to make use of all possible interesting benefits
You can: 1 - get enough str for critical immunity with death ward (base 40) while increase Charisma as much as you can 2 - use charisma to get additional AB (rapier wit), smite damage (greater smite), physical damage (divine might) and shield ac (divine shield + 2 handed weapon/2 weapons)
Personally, I'd recommend either: Use Paladin 35-Harper 5 - Half-Eladrin - without turning - but having maximized high charisma, and enough strength for critical immunity - high physical damage and very high smiting damage Pal 10 Bg 30 - Maximizing str, but with greater smite X and using turning undead to stop foes (notable useful on "no hit mobs" and due the ability to turn "good aligned" foes)
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Post by Twilight Semner on Jun 2, 2014 22:16:02 GMT
Except if you splash harper scout you give up regenerating Smite Evil, which is arguable one of the strongest paladin features in the mod.
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Post by desocupado on Jun 2, 2014 22:38:40 GMT
That's an interesting point. We can try some math around it.
Regeneration of regular smite evil is like 1 per turn (minute) Damage bonus is 40 (paladin class level) + 400 (improved smiting feats) 440
Not shabby - but having 100 physical damage per hit is easy with Charisma and strength with 1,5x mod - so in 2 rounds with 2 extra attacks, we would match it. Not to mention the elemental/exotic damage on weapon (btw does smite evil crit?)
Did I miss anything?
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Post by condude on Jun 2, 2014 22:59:11 GMT
Remember that smite evils also give you an effective third smite, as there's no way that you're going to give up on great smites for an extra smite.
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Post by Torin on Jun 3, 2014 5:29:18 GMT
Thanks for the input. Looks like it can be done - in principle.
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Post by Twilight Semner on Jun 3, 2014 6:28:48 GMT
That's an interesting point. We can try some math around it. Regeneration of regular smite evil is like 1 per turn (minute) Damage bonus is 40 (paladin class level) + 400 (improved smiting feats) 440 Not shabby - but having 100 physical damage per hit is easy with Charisma and strength with 1,5x mod - so in 2 rounds with 2 extra attacks, we would match it. Not to mention the elemental/exotic damage on weapon (btw does smite evil crit?) Did I miss anything? Smite evil does crit. If we're going to go the math route, let's take into account your percent chance of hitting with those two extra attacks relative to the percent chance of hitting with smite evil (with which you're getting a +30 to hit). Not only that, but pure DPS aside, there's something to be said for having renewable single-target burst damage on a toon whose normal crit. multiplier is only x3. When you're doing around 400 dmg per crit, it's nice to be able to burst something down with a 2000 damage crit, if you need to do so.
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Post by desocupado on Jun 3, 2014 11:25:41 GMT
Regular attacks also crit (tough it surely helps against resistances having a burst - shame it is usually accompanied by high immunity as well)
Pure Paldin bonuses So... extra 5 ab for hg's greater smite - good An ab bonus (based on cha mod) that stacks with everything (but still fail against conceal) - thus making it 95% multiplied by concealment. More turning power Extra CL (spell duration, spell resistance piercing for Prayer)
Harper advantages About, 20 extra attacks per turn, not just 2. (5 turns, twice per day) Faster move speed (5 turns, twice per day) No need of crucible (divine shield, yay \o/)
Well pure paladin has its uses, but it's far from a no-brainer.
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Post by simpetar on Jun 3, 2014 11:47:03 GMT
Regular attacks also crit (tough it surely helps against resistances having a burst - shame it is usually accompanied by high immunity as well) Extra CL (spell duration, spell resistance piercing for Prayer) CL 60 also gives +15 bonus attack on Clang when cast by pallies. That is high enough to bypass reduction on most mobs, without needing to have IOF / PSF enchantment in the group (except ofc mobs that *do* require +16, but there are only a few). That is quite big.
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Post by kingcamaro on Jun 3, 2014 14:28:02 GMT
it depends what you want out of it in the end, if you want to disable spawns while the group beats on them, then it will work just fine, if you plan to solo with it, then id probally say smiter pally of some sorts.
not everything is down to damage, after all the late areas of the mod are designed for party play, so a party oriented toon isn't a bad thing at all, especially if it can still hold its own.
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Post by eternal on Jun 4, 2014 13:04:59 GMT
That's an interesting point. We can try some math around it. Regeneration of regular smite evil is like 1 per turn (minute) Damage bonus is 40 (paladin class level) + 400 (improved smiting feats) 440 Not shabby - but having 100 physical damage per hit is easy with Charisma and strength with 1,5x mod - so in 2 rounds with 2 extra attacks, we would match it. Not to mention the elemental/exotic damage on weapon (btw does smite evil crit?) Did I miss anything? Yes, you missed this: "- A turner's turner level is equal to their cleric level. In addition, if the turner has at least 3 levels in Paladin or Blackguard, 2 less than their number of Paladin and Blackguard levels are added to the character's turner level. Further, if the character has Smite Good or Smite Evil uses remaining and the Planar Turning feat, a Smite use will be expended and the 2-level penalty for Paladin or Blackguard will not be applied. Legendary levels count as turner levels, if the control class is Cleric, Paladin or Blackguard. Turner level is further increased by certain cleric domains." With regenerating smites your turns will be better, it won't be up there with a clerics still, since smites only regenerate at a rate of one per minute, and you'll use at the very least two turns per spawn, more than likely more, but still not shabby.
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