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Post by kingcamaro on Jul 25, 2014 12:02:11 GMT
this is the build:
Start Stats Subrace Edits Level 80 +16 Gear
STR 16 16 74
DEX 16 20 46
CON 10 14 42
INT 12 12 36
WIS 08 08 26
CHA 12 16 40
2 bard/3 pally/10 RDD /3 pally/2 bard/30 RDD Stats, first 8 into dex, the rest into str Human Shard +4 dex/con/cha - Extra Music - Lasting Inspiration - Lingering Song Pre-epic - Cleave - Power Attack - Weapon Focus (halberd) - Great Cleave - Greater Weapon Focus (halberd) - Improved Critical (halberd) - Toughness - Blind-Fight Epic Feats - Epic Toughness I - Epic Toughness II - Epic Weapon Focus (halberd) - Epic Toughness III - Epic Toughness IV - Epic Toughness V - Epic Toughness VI - Overwhelming Critical (halberd) - Epic Toughness VII - Epic Toughness VIII - Epic Toughness IX - Epic Toughness X Legendary Feats Devastating Critical (halberd) Epic Prowess Legendary Weapon Focus (halberd) Great Strength I Great Strength II Great Strength III Great Strength IV Paragon Feats Inherit Levitation Paragon Weapon focus Halberd Great Strength V Great Strength VI Great Strength VII Great Strength VIII Skills 08 Lore (Dragon Disciple requirment) 20 Tumble (Bard Dump) 23 UMD (Bard Dump) 20 Concentration 63 Craft Armour 63 Craft Weapon 63 Discipline 63 Parry 63 Listen 63 Search the reason for shard is because its the only BUR book I have on HC that isn't heavily caster oriented, but all the stats contribute to saves/uni/HP im most likely to use con artefact Skill points aren't exact, might need to drop some in CA im probally going to go blue dragon disciple for elec immunity, as there isn't a bur mag ring with elec its mainly going to be hells focused + some onios I haven't calculated saves or AB, but both should be good, especially for the areas I plan to go to Demi x2 will add +4 to final stats too so, any thoughts, suggestions, ideas? |
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Post by chainlink on Jul 25, 2014 14:18:43 GMT
Where are your stat points going?
Take your tumble to 30 as you'll get another couple of AC from this.
I'd say get at least 20 points of Concentration as there are a few checks that are based on this.
Rather than spending points on UMD go for 1 Sorcerer level rather than 4 Bard levels as this means no UMD check when using arcane scrolls and therefore no fail chance if you have heavy penalties plus you get a few more HPs from the extra Paladin levels.
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Post by kingcamaro on Jul 25, 2014 14:35:58 GMT
Yeah, forgot to add the stat spread, fixed.
Added concentration.
Im not sure what skill points I'll have left over to reach 30 tumble.
If I was to take sorc instead of bard, then id either have to drop 2 Feats for blooded/lsa tumble, or forego tumble altogether.
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Post by chainlink on Jul 25, 2014 14:43:54 GMT
Nah XDD characters can only get 6 points from tumble so will cost you 60 cross class or 40ish if you take bard at 20 no need to take the feats.
With the Int boosts XDDs get I never found I had a problem with skill points.
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Post by Paradoom on Jul 25, 2014 18:47:24 GMT
63 listen makes blindfight pretty much obsolete (and defensive wise a vov will do much more for you anyway). You could e.g. use that gained feat for sf tumble and put two more base points into it = 1 more ac.
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Post by chirality on Jul 25, 2014 19:29:41 GMT
Shame to have no Div Might especially with such high Cha.
Armor Skin is also a pretty amazing feat especially for Str tanks. Hard to justify skipping.
Why do you need so much Str? One variant to consider could be taking a bit of a hit to the immense Str gains in exchange for sorc replacing bard as chain recommended, div might (easily make up dmg "lost" via Str*), armor skin.
*course not AB though, but then again trying to turn RDD into a max-AB/dmg machine isn't an easy proposition due to the mechanics, I guess that's why usually it's supposed to be conceived more as a "tank" than a "damage dealer", not that it's impossible or difficult, but it does tend to involve quite some sacrifices when working with non-optimal subrace + nondemi.
Anyway just a thought for another path to consider. I think you should calculate (realistic) AB and AC for the as-posted build and then maybe you could have a better position to judge what kind of sacrifices/changes you could make in order to keep those base numbers viable.
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Post by Torin on Jul 25, 2014 19:43:53 GMT
Armor Skin?
Take: Divine Might and maybe Lightning Reflexes (instead of Blindfight and Toughness)
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Post by Yojimbo on Jul 25, 2014 20:05:53 GMT
63 listen makes blindfight pretty much obsolete (and defensive wise a vov will do much more for you anyway). You could e.g. use that gained feat for sf tumble and put two more base points into it = 1 more ac. SF Tumble would do nothing but help tumble checks the Tumble AC only counts point invested in Tumble you could in fact due to penalty have 39 AC but invest 43 points and still get 8 AC |
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Post by desocupado on Jul 25, 2014 21:59:30 GMT
Bard 4 /Paladin 6 /RDD 30
Human shard
-stats-
Drop 2 Cha for 2 Int - one extra skill (Taunt or persuade)
-AB- level 60
Str = 16/base +12/lvl +20/RDD +14/item +4/feat = 66 (+28 modifier)
AB (level 60) = 16 +10/epic +12/leg +20/mag +2/CW +8/feats -1/size +28/str = 95
-Feats-
Blind fight -> Divine might (+13 Physical for 13 rounds 13 times per day at 60 gets to +17 at 80x2)
You also need Armor skin for 2 ac (drop one Great Strx2 - add in a skill feat for taunt/persuade to ease itemization - or ESF Search if you really intend to go with it)
Instead of Great Str+8 consider:
Legendary Battle Hardened I-IV (For 20% physical immunity) --> 5 feats (1 epic & Legendary)
Environmental Adaptivity I - III (extra resistances under layer penalty) --> 3 Paragon feats
-Skills-
You need tumble 30 for maximum AC -
Taunt or Persuade is highly advisable - more than search -> which you won't roll 20 or get to 127 that easy
Get 20-40 concentration for malboge check (Nuperibo DC 40)
----
Note:
Wouldn't a Dwarven Warchanter provide a better tank with their buffs/debuffs? And much greater utility with unique spells?
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Post by chirality on Jul 25, 2014 22:09:01 GMT
edit: well , redundant and useless long post but left up just cuz  Str tank, early any tank period, it's just a great benefit (+2 universally-stacking ac) for such low cost (only 1 feat, and even RDD bonus epic feat in this case). Well text wall here but maybe the suggestion doesn't make sense, if so then my bad, this is why I thought it would make sense though: Most xDDs are obviously uni, this means they're generally wearing medium, and due to such high Dex, they tend to lose a LOT of ac when disabled/flat-footed, despite having potentially-impressive AC "normally". Of course this is case for anyone but some other classes with crit imm up and/or huge phys imms due heavy and/or nice soak/conceal (CoT, BC, staffy) tend to survive crucial extra round or 2 of "disabled beat down", so ingame I see many xDD suffer hugely when that AC is lost for whatever reason, with no crit imm and only borrowed conceal they tend to melt very fast when disabled, of course +2 more ac doesn't really fix this but it's still another +2 die roll needed to land hit/crit. I'd consider +2 net ac well worth -1 epic/LL feat (specially since majority of those feats are only going to Str in his case, with Str approaching that of assin, a bit much perhaps, with maxed listen +VoV he'll beat conceal well and that's primary cause of misses in hells/hades, he'll have better hit % with mediocre AB than mega AB tank relying only on BF or subpar Listen), anyway back to AC, for HC rdd the "best-situation" AC is never going to be extraordinary for Str tank in the first place (no SH or asmo artis etc), and also lacking innate crit imm for a str tank it's nice to make crits as hard to land as possible since that ac + soaks + borrowed conceal is the defense. So although AC certainly'll be "legit" why not get as much as you can, every little bit helps avoid those crits and onhits (inflicts/autofails) which tend to be the general bane of Str tanks. Especially once con arti nerf goes in  Anyway point is mainly that until you're into "uber ac" range where it doesn't matter, really every single point does make noticeable difference especially when factoring in lower iteration "last couple" attacks and huge gamut of mobs with low-middling AB, or even high-AB mobs with low-mediocre final iterations, yeah this got way longer than I intended but just explaining why I suggested Armor Skin in case it wasn't clear, it's obviously no big deal, just figured it's worth an explanation for why I said it, if it's not worth it to him or doesn't fit into the build concept then obviously it's not worthy advice |
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Post by tomaan on Jul 25, 2014 22:35:24 GMT
Two thoughts:
1) If you're going with pally, drop a couple of str feats and take armor skin and div might. Too much to gain and not much lost.
2) Chiralty makes a good point about being flatfooted; you'll need gear with defensive awareness on it. Failing that, I've made uni-xDD using barbarian as the full BAB class. You can still get your saves high enough with feats and you get uncanny dodge for your dex AC. Wearing light armor, it's a very sturdy build.
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Post by desocupado on Jul 25, 2014 23:28:45 GMT
(BTW RDD can't wear SH) - You have no reasons to not use a VoV. If you don't have one, always move with mouse, holding the button.
--AC at 60 with +14)--
Dex = 16+4+8+14 = 42 (+16)
Shield = large shield 2 +15
Armor = Sissy light armor = 3 +18
10 - base
17 - natural
3+18 - armor modifer (armor bonus + base armor type)
16 - dex modifier (may be limited by armor type)
17 - deflection
20 - dodge + haste
6 - tumble (depends on skill level)
2 - armor skin
2+15 - shield modifier
2 - skill modifier (craft armor provides +1 to ac per 40 fully modified ranks)
10 - class ac bonus (Dragon Disciple or Pale Master - may effect each other or tumble AC)
-1 - size modifier
+4 - Guirding of faithful
= 141
Loses 6 if no Guird or Armor Skin -> 135 with current build
Probably will lose about 2-3 without Sissy Armor (wearing a BUR)
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Post by kingcamaro on Jul 26, 2014 1:13:33 GMT
Armor skin and divine might are great ideas that ill pick up
I have to start with 12 cha (or 12 wis if I go pally 1st level)
Search will be 63(skill) 13(INT mod) 50(items) =126 if it ever goes nessus, it will get+1 from first demi, so only misses out on a few spots map 2+3
I have a VoV ready for when I get there
Thanks deso for posting AB & AC
Wouldnt dropping 8 str Feats for battle hardened and Environmental Adaptivity I - III hurt my AB by a fair ammount?
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Post by desocupado on Jul 26, 2014 3:28:55 GMT
You will lose 2 ab (Great Str+4), at first, for the battle hardened III at 60. II, as you need Armor Skin as well.
AC+2 Phy+10% is very worthwhile for hardcore, in my book.
If you take Taunt - you can reduce enemies AC to compensate
----
Each layer reduction is worth Phy 5%, Elemental 3% & Skills/AB/AC (if layer penalty > 1). -- Unless you expect constant GR, it's way better than above.
Stacking both is good too.
---
On search, you get only int 36 (+13) at 60 with gear+14 - 124 --- so you'd need a SF Search to be able to search (possible with a certain aug, if memory serves me well). And lots of GR due no Take 20.
--
You might consider dropping Blind Fight-Cleave-G cleave-Over-Dev - Great Str4
- for -
Divine might - Power Critical - SF Search - Armor Skin - Epic damage reduction - Leg Battle Hardened IV
And at paragon you might want Adaptivity III and Paragon of Stability instead of Great Str.
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Post by Torin on Jul 26, 2014 5:41:03 GMT
I would not drop great strength for Epic damage reduction - Leg Battle Hardened IV.
Adaptivity III sounds good. I also like the Watherbreathing Para feat.
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