|
Post by tacpilot on Sept 10, 2014 21:59:25 GMT
No one really knows where they came from. Only rumors surround their existence. Commanded by powerful warlords, they were undoubtedly willed into existence by mages of dark souls. It is believed that on moonless nights, these mages performed sacrifices to evil gods, just as mist formed over stagnant pools in the deepest layers of hell.
There is but one known fact. All who have been close enough to truly glimpse upon them, have perished. Their souls ripped from the sheer fabric of their being, and dissipated into the mist.
|
|
|
Post by tacpilot on Sept 10, 2014 22:01:41 GMT
- Advantages
- High AC and over 60% conceil
- Fairly High AB
- Bluff
- 4 Attacks per round
- Low crit threshold 10-20
- Death Attacks for increased damage
- Katanas with crit damage X3 makes for very respectable damage
- High DC Mortal Strike makes this a serious killing machine
- Parry over 100 cuts crit damage taken by almost half
- All saves at 63+ with gear
- UMD high enough to read scrolls and use most items
[li] Disadvantages[/li] - Dual Wielding makes survival very gear dependant
- Like most dex based builds, str checks are a serious issue
- Not reaching 30 levels of assassin cost +1 Mortal Strike DC
[li] Play Style[/li] - First initiative strikes stun first enemy
- Move to second enemy and steal their heals
- Use bluff to push agro to next tank
- Death Attack till dust
- Repeat
[li] Spells[/li] - Improved Inviso - provides the conceil so mord breach immune are a must.
- Getting the epic from RAA allows your ghostly visage to become a native short lived no cool down GS which is a huge help for positioning.
- Wrack - lowers enemies damage resist which is very handy against bosses.
- These 2 I usually combine together in mobs that are immune to crits but not immune to death magic.
- Foebane - Uses their death immune instead of their crit immune for a short duration.
- True Strike adds +20 to attack rolls for a short duration.
[/ul] Final ThoughtsThis build has been a blast to play. It can tank with the best of them, while carving a path of destruction that gives the mob killing casters a run for they money. Even though this is a dex based build, the damage output is very respectable. Combining low crit, high AB, dual wielding with whirlwind attack, and I find only the uber str tanks will out damage this build. Combine that with pick pocket and the damage output is truly impressive. Stealing a heal from a 3,000 HP creature, is like hitting him for over 2,000 HP. Not even the most uber strength tanks hit that hard. Bluffing enemy lowers their AB and pushes the agro to other players. This helps aid in mob control and helps increase the damage output by allowing Death Attacks. This must be used carefully around squishy party members. The mortal strike rate from this build is high enough I often have a hard time stealing heals before they die. With gear, conceil is at 65% and AC at 131 dual wielding. Level 60 breach boots provide shield proficiency so unbuffed AC is at 139 with shield when needed on hell runs.
Here are some graphs for both damage and kills for a series of runs, along with the screen shots the data was pulled from. Attachments:damage-kills.pdf (171.3 KB)
screenshots.zip (508.5 KB)
|
|
|
Post by tacpilot on Sept 10, 2014 22:02:19 GMT
( Monk 4 / Weapon Master 7 / Assassin 69 ) Levels 1 - 40 Race: ElfSubrace: Half-KytonAlignment: Lawful EvilAbilities: All points into DexAritfact: Dex ArtiAbility | At Creation | Subrace Applied | Str | 12 | 12 | Dex | 20 | (24) | Con | 8 | (12) | Wis | 10 | (14) | Int | 14 | 14 | Char | 8 | 8 |
1
Monk |
| Concentration+4 Discipline+4 Hide+4 Listen+4 Parry+4 | expertise | 2
Assassin |
| Bluff+1 Intimidate+1 PickPocket+3 UseMagicDevice+5 |
| 3
Assassin |
| Bluff+2 Intimidate+1 PickPocket+2 UseMagicDevice+1 | Weapon Proficiency (exotic) | 4
Assassin | Dexterity +1 | Bluff+2 Intimidate+1 PickPocket+2 UseMagicDevice+1 |
| 5
Assassin |
| Bluff+3 Intimidate+1 PickPocket+1 UseMagicDevice+1 |
| 6
Assassin |
| Bluff+1 PickPocket+1 UseMagicDevice+1 | Weapon Focus (katana) | 7
Assassin |
| Bluff+1 PickPocket+1 UseMagicDevice+1 |
| 8
Assassin | Dexterity +1 | Bluff+1 PickPocket+1 UseMagicDevice+1 |
| 9
Assassin |
| Bluff+1 PickPocket+1 UseMagicDevice+1 | spring attack | 10
Assassin |
| Bluff+1 Hide+1 UseMagicDevice+1 |
| 11
Assassin |
| Bluff+1 Hide+1 UseMagicDevice+1 |
| 12
Monk | Dexterity +1 | Concentration+8 Discipline+11 | whirlwind attack | 13
Weapon Master |
| Discipline+1 | weapon of choice | 14
Weapon Master |
| Discipline+1 |
| 15
Weapon Master |
| Discipline+1 | Weapon Finesse | 16
Weapon Master | Dexterity +1 | Discipline+1 |
| 17
Weapon Master |
| Discipline+1 |
| 18
Weapon Master |
| Discipline+1 | Improved Critical (katana) | 19
Weapon Master |
| Discipline+1 |
| 20
Monk | Dexterity +1 | Discipline+1 |
| 21
Assassin |
| Hide+1 PickPocket+6 UseMagicDevice+8 | Greater Weapon Focus (katana) | 22
Assassin |
| Hide+1 PickPocket+1 UseMagicDevice+1 |
| 23
Assassin |
| Hide+1 PickPocket+1 |
| 24
Assassin | Dexterity +1 | Hide+1 PickPocket+1 | Epic Weapon Focus (katana) Great Dexterity I | 25
Assassin |
| Hide+1 PickPocket+1 |
| 26
Assassin |
| Hide+1 PickPocket+1 |
| 27
Assassin |
| Hide+1 PickPocket+1 | Epic Prowess | 28
Assassin | Dexterity +1 | Hide+1 PickPocket+1 | Great Dexterity II | 29
Assassin |
| Hide+1 PickPocket+1 |
| 30
Assassin |
| Bluff+2 Hide+1 PickPocket+1 | Ambidexterity | 31
Assassin |
| Bluff+2 Hide+1 PickPocket+1 |
| 32
Assassin | Dexterity +1 | Bluff+2 Hide+1 PickPocket+1 | Great Dexterity III | 33
Assassin |
| Bluff+1 Hide+1 PickPocket+1 | TwoWeapon Fighting | 34
Assassin |
| Bluff+1 Hide+1 PickPocket+1 |
| 35
Assassin |
| Bluff+1 Hide+1 PickPocket+1 |
| 36
Assassin | Dexterity +1 | Bluff+1 | Improved TwoWeapon Fighting Great Dexterity IV | 37
Assassin |
| Bluff+1 |
| 38
Assassin |
| Bluff+1 |
| 39
Assassin |
| Bluff+1 | Great Fortitude | 40
Monk | Dexterity +1 | Concentration+28 Discipline+20 Parry+41 Tumble+5 |
|
|
|
|
Post by tacpilot on Sept 10, 2014 22:02:48 GMT
( Monk 4 / Weapon Master 7 / Assassin 69 ) Levels 41 - 80 41 |
| Bluff+1 Tumble+5 |
| 42 | Dexterity +1 | Listen+1 Tumble+5 | Great Dexterity V | 43 |
| Listen+1 Tumble+5 |
| 44 | Dexterity +1 | Listen+1 Tumble+5 |
| 45 |
| Listen+1 Tumble+5 | Great Dexterity VI | 46 | Dexterity +1 | Listen+1 Tumble+5 |
| 47 |
| Listen+1 Tumble+5 |
| 48 | Dexterity +1 | Bluff+2 Hide+2 PickPocket+2 | Iron Will | 49 |
| Bluff+2 Hide+2 PickPocket+2 |
| 50 | Dexterity +1 | Hide+1 Listen+1 PickPocket+4 |
| 51 |
| Listen+6 | Legendary Weapon Focus (katana) | 52 | Dexterity +1 | Listen+6 |
| 53 |
| Listen+6 |
| 54 | Dexterity +1 | Listen+6 | Epic Skill Focus (Discipline) | 55 |
| Listen+6 |
| 56 | Dexterity +1 | Listen+6 |
| 57 |
| Listen+6 | Legendary Fortitude | 58 | Dexterity +1 | Listen+6 |
| 59 |
| Hide+2 Listen+4 |
| 60 | Dexterity +1 | Listen+1 Tumble+5 | Legendary Will | 61 |
| Hide+1 Tumble+2 |
| 62 |
| Tumble+3 |
| 63 |
| Hide+3 | Paragon Weapon Focus (katana) | 64 |
| Bluff+3 |
| 65 |
| Bluff+3 |
| 66 |
| Hide+3 | Epic Skill Focus (Parry) | 67 |
| Hide+3 |
| 68 |
| Hide+3 |
| 69 |
| Hide+3 | Great Dexterity VII | 70 |
| Hide+3 |
| 71 |
| Bluff+3 |
| 72 |
| Bluff+3 | Great Dexterity VIII | 73 |
| Bluff+3 |
| 74 |
| Bluff+3 |
| 75 |
| Bluff+1 PickPocket+2 | Great Dexterity IX | 76 |
| PickPocket+3 |
| 77 |
| PickPocket+3 |
| 78 |
| Bluff+3 | Great Dexterity X | 79 |
| PickPocket+3 |
| 80 |
| PickPocket+3 |
|
Skill points: | | intimidate bluff concentration discipline hide listen parry pickpocket tumble umd | 4 59 40 43 56 63 55 50 60 22
|
|
|
|
Post by desocupado on Sept 11, 2014 1:16:16 GMT
Swap WM for Monk at level 20 (extra saves, +skill points and no draw back whatsoever) You ac dual wielding should be around 129 (well natural can get to +18 and CA 40 can give 1 more) at 60 10 - base 17 - natural 0+15 - armor modifier (armor bonus + base armor type) 27 - dex modifier (may be limited by armor type) 17 - deflection 20 - dodge + haste 12 - tumble 2 - armor skin 9 - wisdom (monk) That's about the same AC a Str with shield would get. Good part is it goes +12 up with demix2 / lvl 80 / Gear+16 / deflection artifact / Dexterity artifact AB = 16+10+12 +1 +8 +20 +27 = 94 (-4 due dual wielding medium weapon) = 90 (bad for BUR sub) True strike helps with a +4 (it would be +5 if you were pure) - but it's temporary --If you get divine power CL50, you'd get +3 AB and another attack Stealing a heal from a 3,000 HP creature, is like hitting him for over 2,000 HP. Not even the most uber strength tanks hit that hard. Are you sure? - you know sometimes 200~300*6 crits happen twice in a turn: highergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/22893/harbinger-war-ftr-bg-25But PP is good indeed.
|
|
|
Post by tacpilot on Sept 11, 2014 2:53:57 GMT
I had originally entertained that idea, but musta been cross eyed lookin at it. At the time, I thought it was gaining another AB at the cost of the saves. Looking at now I see the attack progression is the same either way. All that was actually gained were a few HP and another ki damage. At the cost of 1 point in each fort and will.. Thats huge.. good call ..TY sir .. *** Build sheet edited with monk also taken at lvl 20 ***
|
|
|
Post by Torin on Sept 11, 2014 16:02:24 GMT
A build with a story and a picture! Jummy Added to wiki
|
|
|
Post by chirality on Sept 11, 2014 19:48:20 GMT
You mention only 2 disadvantages. I'd consider -1 MS DC vs standard assin to be worth mentioning in this section.
|
|
|
Post by tacpilot on Sept 12, 2014 4:37:17 GMT
I should clarify for those who may follow this in the future.
You are correct in that 30 levels of assassin would have provided another +1 to MS. However, I don't think comparing to a "standard" assassin is an accurate assessment, and is still not deficient compared to standard sub alternatives. With the Half-Kytons additional +4 to dex, the MS is at least +1 higher than a standard build that has 30 levels of assassin.
The choice was: MS +1 -vs- significant increase in both damage output and chances per round to MS.
Though having that extra point would have been nice, it was a conscious sacrifice required to achieve 4 attacks per round. Though going from 3 attacks to 4 does not really translate to 30% more damage, it does translate to 30% more chances to MS. I found doing so increased its kill rate especially in crit immune mobs.
TY for the input, will make a note in the disadvantages.
|
|
|
Post by chainlink on Sept 12, 2014 6:44:33 GMT
I'm not sure I understand how taking a Monk level at 40 increases your damage potential and attacks per round? The BAB for attacks per round is purely based on what you take pre 21 so you have already optimised this for the build by taking 7 WM (4/6 would also have worked but you'd have lost the crit improvement of 7 WM). The Monk level at 40 gives you access to skills that are not class ones for an Assassin but as an Elf you can (if you have enough Int) take these in LL with the Able Learner that comes with being Elf base.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 11:42:16 GMT
With the Half-Kytons additional +4 to dex, the MS is at least +1 higher than a standard build that has 30 levels of assassin. How does it have 1 higher MS dc then a standard build?.
You lose 1 from 29 assassin levels, and Brownie has the ability to start at 26 dex, which I believe is the norm for dex assassins. And also you lack max great dex feats until paragon levels which is a bit weird imo. But never the less, nice build. Don't see many Kyton sins running around.
|
|
|
Post by tacpilot on Sept 12, 2014 13:59:33 GMT
I'm not sure I understand how taking a Monk level at 40 increases your damage potential and attacks per round? The only reason monk was taken at 40 was for skill dump. Skills points were so tight, for what I was trying to fit into this, that it simply could not afford cross class penalties without seriously hurting its saves. With all things considered, I felt the cost for MS +1 was just too high. My final thoughts were, "MS has no effect on immune mobs so more damage will help in All occasions, failing saves is more of a disadvantage, and so what if I fail MS check by 1 point. I am swinging 30% more often, I doubt it will survive the next one." How does it have 1 higher MS dc then a standard build?. Since the naming convention for "Open Subs" appears to have been changed to "Standard Subs" I just added that for future clarification. Formally known as "Open Subs" will still not reach the level do MS DC this build achieves. In either case, I believe the term "standard" could be misleading to future newcomers trying to learn build mechanics. Perhaps a more accurate statement would be that this design has MS -1 compared to other BUR based builds who achieve 30 levels of assassin. I have taken many logviewer screen shots of runs from 40 - min in hell.. I plan to graph the data and post the results along with the screen shots. I think you will all agree the MS -1 ended up being trivial compared to the gains achieved in other parts of the build. TY for the favorable reviews.
|
|
|
Post by chainlink on Sept 12, 2014 14:15:03 GMT
I'm not sure I understand how taking a Monk level at 40 increases your damage potential and attacks per round? The only reason monk was taken at 40 was for skill dump. How does it have 1 higher MS dc then a standard build?. Since the naming convention for "Open Subs" appears to have been changed to "Standard Subs" I just added that for future clarification. Formally known as "Open Subs" will still not reach the level do MS DC this build achieves. In either case, I believe the term "standard" could be misleading to future newcomers trying to learn build mechanics. Perhaps a more accurate statement would be that this design has MS -1 compared to other BUR based builds who achieve 30 levels of assassin. TY for the favorable reviews. But you are Elf base so you lose 1dc on your MS for skills you can take in LL (admittedly at an increased cost).
|
|
|
Post by chirality on Sept 12, 2014 18:56:01 GMT
However, I don't think comparing to a "standard" assassin is an accurate assessment, What I meant by "standard" was simply 30 vs. <30 asn levels. Thus, Since the naming convention for "Open Subs" appears to have been changed to "Standard Subs" I just added that for future clarification. Formally known as "Open Subs" will still not reach the level do MS DC this build achieves. In either case, I believe the term "standard" could be misleading to future newcomers trying to learn build mechanics. Perhaps a more accurate statement would be that this design has MS -1 compared to other BUR based builds who achieve 30 levels of assassin. I was not discussing subraces at all so I don't know what this is all about. I used the term "standard" because every other assassin build ever (the standard build) has full 30 asn levels to achieve the final MS DC boost. Perhaps a more accurate statement would be that this design has MS -1 compared to other BUR based builds who achieve 30 levels of assassin. Actually, it's -2 vs other BUR builds with 30 asn levels: You lose 1 from asn level, and kyton is only +4 rather than +6. And as for open subrace comparison, delaying your great stats that long results in not really much advantage even with +4 stat subrace vs. 30 asn level open. and is still not deficient compared to standard sub alternatives. With the Half-Kytons additional +4 to dex, the MS is at least +1 higher than a standard build that has 30 levels of assassin. I never meant to say it was "deficient", just pointing out that you lose 1 DC by only going 29 asn levels. As for remarking on how good the build is or whether the tradeoff is worth it, I did not venture. Point was only to accurately indicate gains/losses, as you strove to do in OP.
|
|
|
Post by desocupado on Sept 16, 2014 22:46:24 GMT
Probably not worth the lost dc (or AB) Having both WM and dual wielding is costing way too many feats. A BG splash and another weapon would probably be better.
|
|