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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 8:23:28 GMT
What's the problem, sounds just like most of your tanks I only have 1 tank that i play and it was awesome at lvl 60... the ones i post on the forums are generally fun builds. Besides disarm is too OP not to take. It means casters and squishies in the party wont get destroyed if mobs decide to go for them, with high enough ab and para disarm you can disarm many creatures in an area which is awesome. Why doesn't everyone just play a chanter?... so it can aoe taunt stuff and keep aggro. But just to make sure Bale doesnt keep arguing, Battle Clerics and Stormlords are fine. Quick question though, doesn't Foundation of Stone drop your dex to 3 losing a bunch of ac? Not that it matters hugely for someone wearing heavy plate.
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Post by ScrewedUp on Mar 17, 2015 10:42:32 GMT
Quick question though, doesn't Foundation of Stone drop your dex to 3 losing a bunch of ac? Not that it matters hugely for someone wearing heavy plate. Can be offset with Tortoise Shell.
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Post by desocupado on Mar 17, 2015 10:59:50 GMT
Quick question though, doesn't Foundation of Stone drop your dex to 3 losing a bunch of ac? Not that it matters hugely for someone wearing heavy plate. Can be offset with Tortoise Shell. Just the ac is offset by a huge Natural ac bonus - So you become Enryes bait.
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Post by chirality on Mar 17, 2015 18:55:20 GMT
But just to make sure Bale doesnt keep arguing, Battle Clerics and Stormlords are fine. You're just plain wrong about BCs being bad (or not being good or whatever it is you're trying to say). Did you even ever party with a well-played/well-built/well-geared BC? It's impressive, to say the least. Battle clerics are fine. They aren't popular. My instinct is that this is due to: requiring heavier investment in the finished product than most people are willing and/or able to pay, and because the inherent hassle in managing slots/buffs on a bufftank. Is a mediocre BC as good as a mediocre chanter? No, it's better imo. Unless your chanter is a finalized 2her with uber gear (an extremely overpowered toon), it's really not that much to write home about (sorry to burst your bubble, wannabes ). Could the same be said for BC? Does it also pretty much suck until it's final reinc/gear? Do the mechanics of building it simply require too much sacrifice of too many things to have a workable, enjoyable toon right off the bat? Sure, we could go for that, but it sucks less than a failwc, and for a rough draft toon that's partway through it's career, self GR is an amazing benefit that a rough draft WC lacks and often has trouble tanking without. (And no, your chanter is not an extremely overpowered toon. Only a couple of these exist and they're in the hands of players that have devoted daunting amount of time and energy to finishing the product in terms of demi/PLs/gear; everyone else's is a WIP that isn't such an amazing toon--good and useful and party loves it since ploders rarely bother IoF anymore, and extra DoM/Gird is always great, and for bardless party the curse/buffsong makes a crucial difference. But not as good as a real bard, which is a real shame, because ever since WC build was posted, people seem to think that rather than building and playing a bard, they can imitate raj's 2h build without the demi iterations or gear to pull it off and end up as a iof/grid/clang bot that doesn't ever truly replace, but only kinda subs for, a bard because "i don't have enough songs" and unlike the uber WCs that are virtually invincible and shell out incredible amounts of bludg dmg where it's required most, the average one is barely doing anything useful offensive, and most don't even curse either, whereas a BC just wades around with his debuff aura.) Stormlords aren't fine. (which is what I told you last year, back when you were convinced how great they were ) However, they are popular (can prolly name 5-10 players I've seen in last 6 months working on one). Obviously it's because people think they'll end up with a great toon if only they devote enough time, which is ironic since applying that mindset to a BC would actually pay off.
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Post by Torin on Mar 17, 2015 19:35:23 GMT
If you want to make a Battlecleric, you need Pharlan - Every other race is lacking something.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 20:10:50 GMT
But just to make sure Bale doesnt keep arguing, Battle Clerics and Stormlords are fine. (And no, your chanter is not an extremely overpowered toon. Only a couple of these exist and they're in the hands of players that have devoted daunting amount of time and energy to finishing the product in terms of demi/PLs/gear; everyone else's is a WIP that isn't such an amazing toon--good and useful and party loves it since ploders rarely bother IoF anymore, and extra DoM/Gird is always great, and for bardless party the curse/buffsong makes a crucial difference. But not as good as a real bard, which is a real shame, because ever since WC build was posted, people seem to think that rather than building and playing a bard, they can imitate raj's 2h build without the demi iterations or gear to pull it off and end up as a iof/grid/clang bot that doesn't ever truly replace, but only kinda subs for, a bard because "i don't have enough songs" and unlike the uber WCs that are virtually invincible and shell out incredible amounts of bludg dmg where it's required most, the average one is barely doing anything useful offensive, and most don't even curse either, whereas a BC just wades around with his debuff aura.) Stormlords aren't fine. (which is what I told you last year, back when you were convinced how great they were ) However, they are popular (can prolly name 5-10 players I've seen in last 6 months working on one). Obviously it's because people think they'll end up with a great toon if only they devote enough time, which is ironic since applying that mindset to a BC would actually pay off. I dont think stormlords are that great... i've never been that interested in them xD... although i do like Dragon Druids and Shifters which is what i think you have confused. Although they are an ok addition to a party, compliments a druid allowing them to do some stuff other then balancing. I do not own a OP chanter, i was talking about my shifter you derp stop assuming Bale. And for the record, having an OP chanter isnt hard, it just requires levels and good gear... which when you farm for it yourself alot you get alot. But i it consumes a large amount of time. *edit - On the topic of Battle Clerics, yes they can be pretty good but pre demi its a worse situation then a chanter imo.. having warcry and decent alt stat from race like Skald they can deal with practically any dex/str stat check. I think i just dont like Battle Clerics because of the requirements to become an uber tank, and still i dont believe they ever get that good a dex if it matters or not. I have played with a few and just been like meh, tried one myself also and realized they weren't too good as a fresh 60. Unlike a bunch of other tanks i have played with and made myself that do fine before all that high level stuff. Although they dont get epics/battle tide etc.. on the other hand have nice self conceal, disarm/kd ability and stat checks. And to put this into context of my mindset, i dont plan on reinc or rebuild because i mostly play -HC-. Which also lacks the players most of the time to have fun with builds having to play solid characters from the off to make small man runs.
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Post by chirality on Mar 18, 2015 0:36:31 GMT
eh the chanter rant wasn't directed at you, i guess you have one(s) but i wasn't thinking of your toons, i just read some mention earlier..was more of a speech than a response. assuming or just not paying attention, i saw something about everyone should play a chanter which is what made me think of ranting on it. Well, okay i dunno if you ever played the stormlord much or even built it i forget, i remember chain's and it was legit, i just remembered at one point you were looking at builds and trying poll opinions on if they were any good and i thought we debated over the value/worthiness of NB aura etc. either way, whatever i wasn't saying you were the stormlord master or anything, i was just saying i notice there's always some around. tldr i was only trolling you for the disarm/shifter tanks, the rest just general trolling.
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Post by Hercules on Mar 18, 2015 7:45:39 GMT
Adding something to the topic.(something have been pointed out before) Battleclerics are awesome tanks, in the meaning they will stand up as long as they are buffed properly. The main thing about it are *the somewhat medium dmg output (unless you choose 2 h scyte or something and take a hit to the AC) *the endless buffing after rest / death (can be fixed with a TA) *gear are kind of limited, the Ely armor, tia cleric belt, and usually the asmo bracers are usually pretty normal, at least for my toon
That being said, they take little to non dmg. I have done TIA and only took total dmg 200 HP on the entire run.
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Post by desocupado on Mar 18, 2015 11:39:42 GMT
Adding something to the topic.(something have been pointed out before) Battleclerics are awesome tanks, in the meaning they will stand up as long as they are buffed properly. The main thing about it are *the somewhat medium dmg output (unless you choose 2 h scyte or something and take a hit to the AC) *the endless buffing after rest / death (can be fixed with a TA) *gear are kind of limited, the Ely armor, tia cleric belt, and usually the asmo bracers are usually pretty normal, at least for my toon That being said, they take little to non dmg. I have done TIA and only took total dmg 200 HP on the entire run. On the other hand, with shield + armor + Abjuration, they have above average AC with 1h weapon + heavy armor. The damage gets str (>21) Cha (> 10) Spec (14-20) Divine favor & Battletide & Prayer (+11) - so they are close to a paladin/bg one hander smiter + harper (the extra buffs make up for the lower str) On gear, I'd also consider either Asmo ring or the cloak, as it feels a bit wasteful to not use the glove's skill bonuses. Armor either a good UR/BUR, or a set from Abyss is fine (heck, even thids plate is also quite usable for implosion)
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Post by Hercules on Mar 18, 2015 11:57:06 GMT
My AC is around 135 ish IIRC. Hard to not use the Ely plate with divine 50 % added....
Herc
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Post by Yojimbo on Mar 18, 2015 13:29:22 GMT
Just a remark on Stormlord as someone has more or less said they are crap and BCs are amazing. I am not trying to say that BCs aren't or that BDs are better but something mentioned about BCs is how you need such great gear and all that to have a truly amazing one and this is maybe true. While having similar such gear can be amazing for a BD I will say that there seems to be less reward for the level of investment people put into amazing BCs when you put the effort into a BD in part because they start out at a higher level of awesome/ease of play than a BC. Generally a BD will splash Monk and have an AC of 130+ thanks to the combination of high DEX & Required WIS can replace its core class, granted not as effectively, and while a buff tank thanks to its high AC it is not as buff reliant as the BC.
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Post by desocupado on Mar 26, 2015 22:29:12 GMT
---------- You can always make a Stormlord archer, and put double immute on him
------sketch--------- Druid 35 Fighter 4 Pal 1 - Half-elf - Half-kyton
Nature's Sniper:
Pros:
+20 physical (feat) +15 physical (SoV buff) PSK conj (+22 phy to self & +15 to others) 2 immute 2 mass displecement - 55% concealment (epic conj) Very high saves (62 minimum at 60/+12, with cha mod) Many (bonus) attacks 4/base +1/haste +2/SoV +2/Xbow SR -13 aura (emergency)
Cons: Mediocre ac (around 117-130) Mediocre str base 12 Mediocre AB - 95 but have a bonus attack at -20 (it'd need ab 100 to hit reliably with it)
Ugly: A druid using Fissure + Reverse gravity as caster would contribute nearly as much (while much more defensive and useful)
Str 12 //physical dmg from migthy Dex 14+4 +8 +20 = 46 (+24) Con 12+4 Int 14 Wis 16+4 Cha 08
Save
R/F/W Fighter 03 - 1/03/01 Pal 01 - 0/02/00 Druid 35 - 5/10/10
R 06 +24 +7 = 70 F 15 +09 +7 = 64 W 11 +11 +7 = 62
AB - 41/bab +8/feat +2/cw +20/mag +24/dex= 95
---Feat count 7 +2/tome +2/fighter 7 +1/tome +3/druid +1/fighter 7 = 30 ------
1 Rapid reload (req for xbow) 5 WF GWF IC EWF LWF 4 LSF Evoc
3 WS EWS LWS 4 LSF Conj 3 Blooded Lsa Listen & tumble
8 Dex 2 EP EMA
--Paragon 2 PWF PWspec 2 PSF psk conj 2 PSF Psk evoc
--skills 4 +1/half +2/int Listen 63 Discipline 43 tumble 63 Parry 63 CW 63 CA 63 Conc 33 SC 30 (for ema)
---------- 10 - base
24 - dex modifier (may be limited by armor type) 17 - deflection 2 - skill modifier (craft armor provides +1 to ac per 40 fully modified ranks) 20 - dodge + haste
0+15 - armor modifer (armor bonus + base armor type) 12 - tumble (depends on skill level)
20 - natural (EMA) Ac 120
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