Parties for abyss - Suggestion

[desocupado]

I think we should focus on how to get more abyss going on.


I'd suggest the always make double runs either:

• two 1 maps
• a 2-3 combo
• a 3-pact and 3-prince
  

This setup eases party making, as people will do part 1 more often. It also ensures people have multiple wand fragment for easier time choosing a prince.

Thoughts?

[Retribution]

Not really that practical. Usually part 1-2 for the same run is preferred because you don't need to recharge at workshop between and clear more pazunia maps. Separate part 1s or 2-3 won't allow this. Also part 1 and 2 can be done with very few players whereas part 3 requires a more rounded party. Pact and prince is already almost always done one after other in my experience.

[bazukar]

Mar 23, 2015 22:52:22 GMT desocupado said:

I think we should focus on how to get more abyss going on.

More people starting these groups on cores rather than tanks looking for cores.

[Hercules]

I have been trying to get Abyss runs going for the last month, with little luck.
My only problem is time, if I got the time, I can always help out.
Currently need tags on Shifter and Barbarian.

[Matt]

Like baz said, its alot easier to get them started playing a core yourself... usually barding gets the interest

[Li'l Rose]

I would love to see more Abyss runs. I have only been to Azz 1, so could use some more tags. Any method of doing the runs is fine. Not really sure of the Abyss rewards, but everyone love Hells for the double demi rewards, and reduced penalties.

Just started getting cores into Hell runs, so mostly just have tanks for Abyss.

[Hercules]

Mar 24, 2015 10:57:43 GMT Matt said:

Like baz said, its alot easier to get them started playing a core yourself... usually barding gets the interest

It's way more complicated than that Matt.
Its not that easy to just log a Bard/Arcane/Cleric/Druid and think you will get flooded with tells.




Herc

[chainlink]

He is correct to an extent though if you say Abyss run ABCD covered I'm pretty sure you'll have tanks falling over each other to join.

[Matt]

I wouldn't say getting a party is complicated. But generally if the person calling is a core (specifically a bard) there is usually more interest because of the perception that the run will be smoother/go easier. But if you continuously call runs as a tank less people will be interested as they probably want to fill that gap themselves considering tanks can be fun and are easier to play or require less effort most of the time. To be honest, tanks aren't even needed if the casters can use summons well i.e. controlling it around KB mobs, giving it the right dmg type buffs etc... So your spot as a tank generally doesn't mean much, although it adds strength to a already 'cored' out party.

If all else fails, be like me and buy multiple accounts so you can solo what you want when you want. Although it requires more skill and time, and generally loses the fun aspect of playing with friends.

[desocupado]

I suppose I can go back to cleric.
My druid needs GM1-3 Z2-3, My sorc, any prince, my cleric any non-Z.

It's just... DT's schedule usually involved parts 1-3, which i find quite tiresome. But i suppose double runs are more manangeable.

[Hercules]

I dont think the problem is if you play druid or Cleric
We just lacked over cores or were unucky ( last attempt)
I think we should tag youre druid

[woqued]

Mar 24, 2015 13:34:44 GMT Li'l Rose said:

I would love to see more Abyss runs. I have only been to Azz 1, so could use some more tags. Any method of doing the runs is fine. Not really sure of the Abyss rewards, but everyone love Hells for the double demi rewards, and reduced penalties.

Just started getting cores into Hell runs, so mostly just have tanks for Abyss.

Sorry for a big semi-offtopic post, but this made me think. Abyss rewards are rather unknown compared to the Hell rewards, although Abyss rewards are nothing to be scoffed at. There are many valuable set items all over the Abyss, and these are the only items besides Asmodeus artifacts that can grant up to +16 stats. If a set item from Abyss grants +12 stats by default, it will raise to grant +14 at 70 and +16 at 80. If an item grants +14 stats it will grant +16 stats at 70(!!). 

All part 1 and 2 minibosses give you a shot at Abyss weapons. You get 3 weapons total from parts 1+2, as many as you get from Dustbone. If you get lucky when randomizing them, they can be superior to DB weapons, making them the best weapons in the game.

The pt1/pt2 minibosses also drop various caster spellslot gear similar to Tia gear, but they give you access to different +16 stats allowing more options from Asmodeus artifacts without losing DC or Statcheck tanking potential, enabling you to draw the most of your characters. These may even enable you to make builds that would be underwhelming without them. An example of this: 
Cleric boots: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Corruption_of_the_Spirit

Very coveted items from various realms of Abyss: 

Azzagrat:
Situational, but still the best tank cloak for those that can pull it off: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Wrap_of_the_Dark_Prince
One of the best, if not the best sorc hat in the game: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Mask_of_the_Blood_War
Arguably the best bard armor in the game: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Chorus_of_the_Damned
Bard fun-enabler and provides alternative to being tied down to always having druid / aoemording: Helmet: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Visor_of_Cursed_Chaos

Zionyn:
Supreme gloves of awesome for pretty much everything: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Claws_of_the_Obyrith_Lord
Very fancy set shifter armor: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Drape_of_the_Doppelganger
Sorc boots: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Corruption_of_the_Mind

Gaping Maw - (the coolest looking area in the entire game):
Druid boots: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Corruption_of_the_Land
Cleric boots: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Corruption_of_the_Spirit


Shedaklah:
Sucks lootwise for the most part to be honest, but still provides weapons and you can have a blast by experiencing various players' different reactions to the various detrimental surprises as you proceed forward. Also requires almost everyone in the team to contribute together to getting through. Also, mushrooms. 
Edit: needed to add something for the poor shed:
Druid bracers: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Dreams_of_the_Poisoned_Forest
Making Shed less freaky flag: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Standard_of_Shedaklah

Thanatos:
UEF source for any class that lasts longer than a blink, alternative to Asmodeus helmet. Extremely handy. wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Necklace_of_Demonic_Ascension
+16 dex at 70 and dex check improvement from Cloak slot : wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Shroud_of_the_Demon_Bat
Fancy Theurge armor: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Devotions_of_Mystra

Prince wins (tagging all Abyss layers and then doing a harder variant of a part 3 boss - for more information check the wiki or ask a ... vet) - grant some rather crazy rewards in the form of  1 Vestige item per win, as well as some flat bonuses to your character. Some examples of these:
Casters favourite and alternative to Styxwalkers / Ely amni ring: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Gaze_into_the_Abyss
Awesome BT helmet for tanks: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Crown_of_Corruption
Hawt hat #3: wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Visage_of_Elemental_Chaos
Better version of Glint for non-rogues too (and ESF: Search too )! wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Brazier_of_Painful_Truth


On an unrelated note, I think it would make more sense if Pazunia gave loot instead of Oinos. Would make the trips through Pazunia towards various Abyss layers less of a useless drag, and it would give better incentive to learning some of the hardest parts of the game.

[woqued]

On the thread itself, doing just 1 or 1-2 is vastly superior to reasons Ret mentioned.

Also, tagging should be of lesser priority compared to getting the runs done, its impossible for everyone to tag their toon #54 every time - its okay if even just 1-3 players out of 10 gets a tag, and the rest make it possible.

[desocupado]

Mar 24, 2015 22:09:09 GMT woqued said:

On an unrelated note, I think it would make more sense if Pazunia gave loot instead like of Oinos. Would make the trips through Pazunia towards various Abyss layers less of a useless drag, and it would give better incentive to learning some of the hardest parts of the game.

[chirality]

It seems that many people consider playing a tank to be easier/less scary than playing a core. It seems that people tend to be much more confident when playing tanks vs. something that casts spells, and as well more confident when playing non-core role.

It seems that people consider the proper evolution to be "play a tank until you gain confidence in an area, and then you shall switch to playing caster".

Why?

I ask because it's been repeated ad nauseum: learn casters 1st and you will be provided with the experience, tags, loot, and knowledge which you will be in desperate need of to play a successful tank. More importantly, playing core allows you to pay forward the debt you'll incur later by playing that tank: you're getting dragged and there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Mar 24, 2015 13:34:44 GMT Li'l Rose said:

Just started getting cores into Hell runs, so mostly just have tanks for Abyss.

Sometimes, a player is so new to the server that they are feeling clueless about performing in an unfamiliar run.

Yet I see this pattern created and repeated by players who, far from being new to the game, have conquered Asmodeus multiple times and therefore should fully understand the mechanics of party composition.

I appreciate that playing a core, in particular non-arcane, can be demanding and stressful. I understand that there's a concept of abyss as a secret, enigmatic place filled with inaccessible information. I understand that one might feel like they'd fail to perform/not have fun(? grasping at straws) when playing anything other than a tank.

However, you should try to change these perceptions, and focus more on becoming motivated to dismantle the mental barriers that prevent you from feeling confident/productive on anything other than a tank.

Far from being a punishment, this allows your friends to benefit as well: more cores means faster and more frequent run generation, and faster and more frequent runs, which in turn rewards you and your friends with greater experience/confidence and more cores to tag.

Try sparking a positive cycle by voluntarily submitting to the pain period which is unavoidable when doing anything new.

tldr:

No one will do this for you.

The only thing stopping you from doing Abyss runs is yourself. Anyone who's played this game for more than 2 months should know that playing a tank is counter-productive to learning the endgame of this mod. It's also counter-productive to your goal of playing more endgame runs. You are your own worst enemy if you choose to play a tank rather than play abyss.