No, they didn't use specials. From what I recall though, Molydei/Camizu were capable of dev crit for a short while, along with a few other such examples. The summons were ridiculously, comically overpowered on release.
1 - Yes, I like alternative choices (you called it hipster), but it's due my curiosity. I want less biased information on possibilities. 2 - I got the point about homogenizing character effectiveness due balance complains. I just was pointing that you can make a real "mindless" run formation that could work. Fighters, on the other hand, could be interesting to play if (greater) feats were (still) relevant. Tanks (the meaning of fighter you probably used) need at least some tools to choose between. 3 - Well, you don't like competition. The logger can be an objective ruler to evaluating a character effectiveness, beyond total damage in/out and kills. If tanks are truly "tanking" they will do better on some defensive regard. If they are "utility", that could also be evaluated, by stuff like number of successful disarm/kd.
In essence, if you have to ask, you should probably play more until you can make a reasoned judgement yourself. I don't mean to make that sound harsh by the way, I just personally feel too much rigid "guidance" can be very negative. I still have memories of "GREATER RUIN IS A MUST HAVE ON ALL CASTERS" and "TOUGHNESS IS A MUST TAKE FEAT FOR BARBARIANS" and "THE MINIMUM CON SCORE I'D HAVE ON ANY MAGE IS 18". You can still find gems like this going back a few years on this very forum. I wouldn't ever provide any guidance further to the core open race builds Xiayu and I made, which are stepping stones to people developing their own understanding and ideas.
Yes, a time when caster had max level of 60, no PSF/PSP/PSK, no +16, no +2/at level eighty - when implosion had a reliable dc around = 10 +9/lvl +30/wis +8/feat = 57 // on that time a DC 65 instant kill was useful (with now popular necromancy, clerics can even add a +3 CL to DC, on top of the +4 above). The game shifted. Some ideas didn't hold ground (caster's con).
For people who like to use a forum to gather knowledge, asking is a valuable tool.
I'll try to make the post introduction better. removed:
Don't you love playing a specific role, but your level 80 core with multiple prince wins and demi x10 don't need anything? The try making a second character of that type. (disclaimer: satisfaction may vary, consult your good sense before trying something you find boring)
1 - Yes, I like alternative choices (you called it hipster), but it's due my curiosity. I want less biased information on possibilities.
Hipster does not mean someone who likes alternative choices. My sorcerer has enchantment foci, for what it's worth. Dropping evocation on a sorcerer though? That is "hipster". It's arguably the single most useful school an arcane can take, and that's even if you disregard the ridiculously overpowered paragon spell. It's handicapping yourself for the sake of being different.
2 - I got the point about homogenizing character effectiveness due balance complains. I just was pointing that you can make a real "mindless" run formation that could work. Fighters, on the other hand, could be interesting to play if (greater) feats were (still) relevant. Tanks (the meaning of fighter you probably used) need at least some tools to choose between.
I have been a part of an all tank Nessus run. There's not a lot that you can't make "work", but it's not gonna help forming successful pug groups or getting more people to play cores or more cohesive party comps.
I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion, but if I wanted competition I'd play League of Legends, or a game of chess, or football. This mod is so easy nowadays, people just resort to trying to "win" the logs. There was an ex-dm who haxxed his gear just so he could spam his run log statistics every chance he got, lest we forget. Are logs useful? Yes, to some degree. Are they a negative influence and mostly used as a source for bragging rights, influencing people's decisions in how they play and which builds they use? Undoubtedly so. I don't think anyone could argue that. We've all had the tank with wmer levels and a lemure bashing fetish who doesn't like to use pt2, or rez, or wait for casters to rest (I could go on) on our team.
Yes, a time when caster had max level of 60, no PSF/PSP/PSK, no +16, no +2/at level eighty - when implosion had a reliable dc around = 10 +9/lvl +30/wis +8/feat = 57 // on that time a DC 65 instant kill was useful (with now popular necromancy, clerics can even add a +3 CL to DC). The game shifted. Some ideas didn't hold ground (caster's con).
Again, you missed the point. Those statements have never been accurate. Greater ruin had/has a small niche as a panic button, but it was never a "must have" considering the amount of investment required. The other two statements are just plain nonsensical from any reasonable viewpoint. I can tell you that I think dropping evocation is an unwise choice on a mage; I wouldn't tell you it was "MUST HAVE" though, either.
Druid is perhaps the most likely class to have some alternative spell usage.
The really mandatory Evocation (Immute and some damage) & Transmutation (Nb and Drown).
I really had lots of fun with illusion (PSK Illusion is really good) while creeps and vortex of teeth do add a decent amount of damage. Conjuration is always fun - grease + stonehold is a safe and reliable mob control. Add in the all purpose Elemental Swarm, Storm of Vengeance, Ice Lance and Bombardment and fun is ensured. Abjuration has the fonts that are really helpful with bigger area of effect. But the cherry o the top is the epic spell for a massive SR debuff (-26 at PSF!)
It's a shame they have less feats than other casters :/
I've never understood why people don't like abj on a cleric. Energy immunity is decent, and magic vestments can synergize with gird nicely. Aegis is also a very powerful defensive buff on top of that.
Of course, I do prefer necro, but substituting abj should be a completely valid choice IMO.
As long as I've been here (oh jolly, 3 years :0) , people have always liked up to ESF:Abj on Clerics... Of any type. Higher than that will give less cool benefits for very high costs for pure caster clerics; other types may be forced to go PSF just to get the sweet MV benefits. Even then PSF might be worthwhile even for caster clerics mainly for G:Dispel if there is no other PSF source around. Abj in general is extreeemely recommended on any type of cleric and has been for years.
Baneknights would be balanced if they could splash paladin. -Caeha Everyone should stop using the same portrait so I can GR them better, damnit. -Caeha