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Post by randallflagg on May 3, 2015 0:11:09 GMT
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Post by desocupado on May 3, 2015 1:17:11 GMT
Let's see: - Going pure makes sense with xbow as otherwise your sneak attack will be (much) less effective. It also helps with some rogue class features, like skill mastery. However a xbow rogue is nearly as fragile as a arcane caster (might be more fragile).
- Splashing grants better defensive options and the use of crippling attack for debuffing. In that case the safest route would be Weapon and shield, but you damage will be bad (very bad). This reduces the appeal of this kind of build considerably. It's reccomended to splash 5 at most, due a class secret.
Taking that in consideration I'd go with Pinprick xbow build. Tough I'd consider dropping Defensive Roll and Epic dodge for Slippery Mind and ESF Listen. In the end Epic Dodge will only help if you are attacked only by arrows outside melee range, so it's not absolutely useless. Regardless of which one you'd prefer if you aren't experienced, you will suffer in the 1-60 as rogue. To help you could grab a few wands from thids run as they have good, high CL, spells. The question is, what exactly you are intending to be able to do as rogue? Is it just search and steal stuff? Personally I'd rather play a rogue-assassin or a loot mage/palemaster. Also, I'd recommend getting better subraces and gear, since you already have a druid.
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Post by drunkenboastor on May 3, 2015 2:29:28 GMT
If I were a new player, and I wanted to build a rogue that was able to use a moliated guildmaster's glint ammulet to point the way to secrets, I would go with a dual weilding build that has at least 35 pre-legendary rogue levels. Missile weapons are very poor in many ways.
If I were a new player and I wanted a toon that is able to function as a rogue I would suggest any of wiz9/rog1/pm30, wiz39/rogue1, or perhaps a 30aa/8rog/2wiz. Illithid with elf for base race is a really good choice for lootmage or pm, that 1 level of rogue gives a +10% xp boost, and is better than any ur race.
Equipment available is a considering factor for direction to go. Melee toons require a much higher quality of gear over a caster to be effective.
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Post by randallflagg on May 3, 2015 2:57:26 GMT
I kind of like the idea of a rogue-assasin, high sneak with daggers or comparable, hard to hit with good skills in the classic areas of searching, spotting, disarming traps, unlocking..not neccessarily needing to steal unless you think that's important.
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Post by Raj on May 3, 2015 5:13:36 GMT
None of those builds is truly competitive now, or was at the time of the writing. Also if you want to enjoy a rogue you should focus on the build strengths over a mundane melee fighter, so going pure and pick the extra sneak attack feats is going to offer you the much needed punch against not-trash enemies, aka those that matter; ignore self concealment, don't go overboard with save feats. Rogues are extremely gear/demi reliant for both damage and skills anyway, they are going to disappoint you at start and I'd follow DB suggestion about splashing rogue skills on a better team oriented toon, that's going to be equally welcome in parties for lockpicking/trap duty while requiring a lot less gear to pull its weight. Just suggesting a concept nobody touched as far as ''build for newbs'' go, a pure str based rogue investing some feats in armor prof to wear this and using morning stars is at least dmg competitive with other open race tanks, but with end game in mind I'd wait before you collect more gear/experience, especially considering that nowadays a rogue is not a must required class if not to get some selected loot from very endgame runs. The best milleage you can get out of rogue skills as a newbie comes from solo farming LL areas and search for forge secrets that could sell well to bored forge players, but then in order to clear those areas in reasonable speed you need to use a wiz or pm build with just a rogue splash, cuz rogue alone doesn't go anywhere. hope I crushed his dreams before he wasted too much time
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Post by Torin on May 3, 2015 7:29:42 GMT
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Post by Raj on May 3, 2015 12:37:58 GMT
Sorry to say, both very weak and outdated.
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Post by woqued on May 3, 2015 12:47:23 GMT
Wouldn't play a rogue here unless you have a friend to play with you at all times, or intend to dual/multibox. DB and Raj put it pretty well.
If you're adamant about getting the rogue experience: splash while leveling up, some ftr/pal but leave 35 rogue, go 1h + shield (preferably something expensive and unattainable like morningstar =[), reincarnate to a better subrace later on like Dragonblooded, Kurai, Stinger (or Illithid) and go pure rogue to be moderately useful in endgame areas (you need the sneaks to go through sneak immunity). Undying is fairly easy to attain as bur subrace and is pretty ideal for rogue.
I made one, played it as modified somewhat up to date version of Pinprick, wouldn't do it again although it did kill lowbie tags pretty well with the divine pings and penetrating sneaks (utterly worthless alone). Later reincarnated into a 1h mstar + shield str based undying somewhere around 66-70, i was happy with it for a time but dmg is uber lackluster unless you can get your paws on one of the most hard to get items in the game (wrap of the dark prince). In hindsight, wouldn't do it again, point stands: unless got many friends to play with and/or multibox, wouldn't make a rogue.
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Post by randallflagg on May 3, 2015 13:50:43 GMT
Pretty much, but i certainly appreciate the insight. While I party when possible I also solo quite a bit which thus far has been fairly safe to do with my druid. I think I take heed the writing on the wall and hold off on trying to play a rogue until I get more experience with HG in general and start collecting some more exotic races to select from, I see a fair bit of mention about people using "atomie" rogues? Why is this?
A few of you have also mentioned playing a PM which I have also been interested in trying. I hate changing topics even if it's my own thread :(but since I have your attention any good named builds for me you would recommend? Please keep in mind that i'm pretty noob so having a build to reference with a decent posted progression is pretty important for me so I don't...f#@& it up. Also I know a lot of you vets are into having the best of a certain build ect(hope that isn't confusing) but at this point i'm not looking for greatness....good will suffice for me. The most important thing for me really is to have a toon who can contribute later on and be a good team member which for me is the most important thing!...being uber powerful is not.
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Post by Raj on May 3, 2015 14:17:57 GMT
Thing about making a melee toon is that you're incredibly gear reliant, and at the same time such toon can't farm even LL areas alone to get wealthy enough in order to be effective. It's not even about being 'uber powerful', but basic contributor level. If you're really into making a rogue, considering you have a druid already, it'd be useful to know what level you are at, what areas you visited, and especially what sort of gear you accumulated. So stuff like availabe subraces and high level weapons, in order to plan the build accordingly. While we're at it, why this interest about rogues? Did you see any high level one in action and if yes in what area? Are you worried about leaving those locked chests behind? (again, there's no true important ''rogue-only loot'' until the very end game) - edit: nvm, spotted you in game, lvl 16 is indeed too early to think about such stuff - About those 'atomie' rogues, it was a top tier (ur) race 8-9 years ago, before hells were introduced and people didn't know about stat checks. Nowadays going full dex route is asking for troubles at 0x.
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Post by randallflagg on May 3, 2015 15:57:32 GMT
Thank you very much for your ingame advice Rajah...I think I was talking to you anyways lol. I will take your advice and just concentrate on my first char. I've already gotten into the habit of banking items that may be helpful for another type of char, obviously LL stuff but probably a good habit to have instead of just selling everything. I def don't want a dozen toons in my vault and will concentrate on one thing at a time till I get the experience needed to branch out. I've been having a lot of fun going after these tags and it seems so far a great way to gain knowledge of the getting around the world and learning the maps ie...you can get here from here and need to grab this item to get to here ect. Thanks again.
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Post by desocupado on May 3, 2015 18:13:05 GMT
I see a fair bit of mention about people using "atomie" rogues? Why is this? It was probably the same player. Probably Li'l Rose. Never saw anyone else use a rogue with that subrace recently. A few of you have also mentioned playing a PM which I have also been interested in trying. Well, there isn't a pm build optimized for rogue on open subrace with rogue. You could try the open subrace wizard - Black mage. As it can also cast illusion and necromancy spells. Make sure to pick up the newer spells that buuild didn't know of, namely Reverse Gravity.
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