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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 21:29:28 GMT
I guess I am beating a dead horse, seeing as how there isn't much life left in the server but
I am extremely disappointed in the few players that are left here. Wow! HG used to be so much fun! Now it is a ghostly moldering shadow of its greatness with players feeding like maggots on its empty wastelands...Seriously! Whatever happened to the community spirit, of people trying to help each other out? Why can't people just get along??
One of the last long time players just quit. Yay for the server.
Everyone is it just for themselves. The few runs that do happen are rarely called and if they are, it is an after thought. Yeah fun.
I guess I am extremely disappointed in some guildies that have ditched and losing another friend here...so sorry for the rant.
HG is rarely fun anymore. Sad. Really missing the good old days...
Perhaps its time to move on for good.
Ray
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Post by tank on Oct 13, 2015 21:44:07 GMT
perhaps we should implement a rule that forces the few people left to group together, regardless of whether they enjoy one anothers company. that should fix everything, and probably wont drive people away
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Post by reelroleplayer on Oct 13, 2015 22:09:41 GMT
Sorry you feel this way. This sense of community you describe echoes the experience I crave as well. It's exactly why I founded the Eternal Order guild with two other like-minded players way back when (7? years ago...the guild later merged with Red Wizards to form Eternal Reds, though it has nearly died out now).
I'd wager there are folks here that share your desire for strong community spirit, but with the lower population it's an unfortunate reality that you have to sort through some unpleasantness (bitter/jaded/rude players) to find them. I'm certainly opposed to creating yet another elitist clique guild, but with the right players and some simple foundational guidelines, that can be prevented - we've already seen it be successful in the past, after all.
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Post by Ulatempa Poetess on Oct 14, 2015 8:47:22 GMT
Doubt rules would help in any way to improve such a thing, it's a state of mind of each player. I remember when I played years ago avoided the never players so I wouldn't have to explain the game yet agian and put up with their misstakes, crappy builds, crappy gear etc. And it is probaly mindsets like that among other things that accounts for the lack of players more than the age of the game. The veterans are however those who with their wealth of knowledge can make the newbies stay and if you're really nice to a person they will in turn feel the urge to be really nice to someone in turn. In most games many of the nicer veterans are players who when they where new had awesome people greeting and helping them and making them feel at home. It's always the veterans that kill a good game. But everyone won't always get along with anyone which isn't much of a problem unless say.. the population has grown very tiny. But it's hard to get new people to such an old game as I can only assume it is basically players inviting people they know, not people randomly stumbling across a tiny server in an really old game And with so few players there won't be many new players. Who knows, maybe one day some great new engine for this game will pop up and it is reborn agian to a platform new enough for new players to randomly stumble across it Sounds kinda muchy but was a thought I had the other day so if I see a newbie at least I will try to threat it better than the last I meet Now if only an administrator notice my CD-key thread so I can reclaim my old account and actually be in a position to meet a newbie xD I was toying with the idea what would happened if say the server(with everyons characters,subs and bankchests etc on) mysteriously exploded years back when the community was still large every veteran would have to, after many days of ranting and cursing, start agian clean doing everything from the start, the newbies would have so many to play with
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Post by woqued on Oct 14, 2015 12:09:51 GMT
Sorry you feel that way. Sorry you lost a friend. I don't agree with your sentiments. You have your viewpoint, other people have theirs. Talk to them in game, before ranting on forums?
If you don't enjoy the game, you should indeed quit or take a break. It is a game.
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Post by Mister Pin on Oct 14, 2015 13:19:28 GMT
Sorry you feel that way. Sorry you lost a friend. I don't agree with your sentiments. You have your viewpoint, other people have theirs. Talk to them in game, before ranting on forums? If you don't enjoy the game, you should indeed quit or take a break. It is a game. Pretty harsh, imho, but who am i to judge. I have said things on these forums that were unkind sometimes, even unjust. But correct me if i am wrong, there is a section here under rants, which in time i am sure this one will be filed under. Yes, it is a game. One i enjoy very very much , and the camaraderie with my fellow friends and players, new to game or not. I am not going to bring up any sore subjects that for anyone who has been here awhile know about. I am here about common decency to fellow players. All who play here know i am on quite a lot, and i see what happens for the most part run wise. I am not going to say how "unfair" or "unjust" uncalled runs are. But at the same time, seeing those runs going on, and seeing that there is room for 1 or more people seems kinda well, selfish. I can only speak for myself when i say i for the most part any more i just do LL's and pull another acct with me for the xp- Most times i dont even loot anymore. . . Selfish by not asking others to come? No. Most people want to play, not leech. BORING. But if asked. . . Ill admit i have not once asked to join any of these runs, and for good reason(s) of my own. Maybe i could get in, maybe not. The question i have is ; Why aren't these runs called, for any other reason except "we don't have to"? The few new players we have might be interested on what you have to say as well i'm sure. A little feedback ( trolls stay under your bridges ) would be appreciated. Thanks
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Post by Ulatempa Poetess on Oct 14, 2015 13:54:06 GMT
I do remember that while I played there was quite alot whispered runs and before anyone even saw them going on they where too deep to join. It makes it troublesome in many ways, for new players and webdash lurkers to join the fun. I'm not saying it's evil players who's trying to keep others away, not at all, often you've but to ask and they'll invite you. My guess is that people simply don't expect anyone to join a called run so they don't call it, just ask some friends and set out on their merry way. The solution would be easy to, call it anyway, takes but a few seconds and once in a blue moon a very happy fellow might tag along
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Post by woqued on Oct 14, 2015 14:43:17 GMT
I didn't mean to be harsh, just pointed out my opinion. I honestly think if someone doesn't enjoy a game, that individual should stay far away. She did say she hardly enjoys the game anymore. Anyone feeling this way should take a break - or quit, and I stand by this sentiment.
Mr Pin: For me personally, I don't call runs because I don't enjoy full runs. They make a different social environment that I don't enjoy. They're rushed, messy, laggy and poorly played. People do not wait for bankers. People do not bank even after being asked to do so on multiple occasions. People don't care about playing well ; just spam stuff, without even an intention of learning. This is the social environment that called runs created for me personally, a year ago.
My runs have been much more pleasant since I stopped calling runs. I play with a set of likeminded individuals, as well as occasionally with anyone wanting to join. It is simply more efficient, fun and easier to plan with a set of individuals, willing to play whatever toon regardless of tagging. Learning together, teaching eachother, figuring out fun stuff to do in chat, then just doing it.
The aforementioned - everyone banks, everyone enjoys, people taking turns over playing what is needed to help others is the "COMMUNITY SPIRIT" for me. It did not happen by calling runs.
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Post by Raj on Oct 14, 2015 15:22:40 GMT
Sorry you feel that way. Sorry you lost a friend. I don't agree with your sentiments. You have your viewpoint, other people have theirs. Talk to them in game, before ranting on forums? If you don't enjoy the game, you should indeed quit or take a break. It is a game. Pretty harsh, imho, but who am i to judge. I have said things on these forums that were unkind sometimes, even unjust. But correct me if i am wrong, there is a section here under rants, which in time i am sure this one will be filed under. Yes, it is a game. One i enjoy very very much , and the camaraderie with my fellow friends and players, new to game or not. I am not going to bring up any sore subjects that for anyone who has been here awhile know about. I am here about common decency to fellow players. All who play here know i am on quite a lot, and i see what happens for the most part run wise. I am not going to say how "unfair" or "unjust" uncalled runs are. But at the same time, seeing those runs going on, and seeing that there is room for 1 or more people seems kinda well, selfish. I can only speak for myself when i say i for the most part any more i just do LL's and pull another acct with me for the xp- Most times i dont even loot anymore. . . Selfish by not asking others to come? No. Most people want to play, not leech. BORING. But if asked. . . Ill admit i have not once asked to join any of these runs, and for good reason(s) of my own. Maybe i could get in, maybe not. The question i have is ; Why aren't these runs called, for any other reason except "we don't have to"? The few new players we have might be interested on what you have to say as well i'm sure. A little feedback ( trolls stay under your bridges ) would be appreciated. Thanks Woah your highness, get off your high horse, you're the worst form of forum-troll, in-game hypocrit noob here. Let see what I randomly saved about your holy HG habits. First of all, some good ole ''OMG ELITIST'' style unshouted hell run with bots and empty slots. Then the never old ''GUILD ONLY!'' run when guilds lost their purpose approximately 8 years ago, or whenever last pvp took place, if we exclude the nice split chests. Especially funny is the perceived need to shout run full when there're (marked) bots as well. It's also very funny how the same people who played pretty much alone all the spring/summer 2015 decide the server is dieing only after some evil blacklisters gave this server another chance this last september. I'm not even playing atm and looks this last 'drama' arose because some old time player was jealous of not feeling welcome (not that he even tried ask for a invite, but I guess courtesy is not for him). I see 4 guilds represented and 2 untagged guys on that unshouted Nessus so it coudn't be that elitist right? Especially when the person who made this thread asked (in !chat, and quite rudely) for a spot and they made room for her. Now, this should ring a bell but I'm going to make it obvious because people probably aren't getting it: it's not ''those other guys'' who are evil and mischievous, simply put people do not want to party with you even if you shout a 'thids for all'. Instead, people who know each other and play nice together simply gather and decide what run to start. Latecomers do not need to check webdash for run messages or ask with a interserver message, they see a bunch of players and jump aboard. This has another obvious explanation, that most of the leftover AD nubs are unable to reliably organize anything beyond shallow hells, and after having played with them and witnessed some impressive (lack of) skill display (from people who have been here forever, but never improved), people tend to gravitate around players who actually take their time to level up useful toons and give advice in game, and when they see skilled players on they know there'll be some action soon, hence spontaneous gathering. It doesnt' help that the few times mr. pin or other ''vet'' (hah) is online the preferred hunting ground is some lame LL or the mother of all runs: Really? When other players can start interesting runs just with 1-2 core classes while you're stuck farming Oinos over and over, guess who is going to receive more invite requests/run proposals. And who is the target of more envious forum trolls. Now do not pretend you didn't enjoy your share of ''free tag riding'' you glorious forum fighters. I have fond memories of me+2 other guys attempting nessus when nobody else was on and mr. pin useless toon joining and shouting !lfg. Here another hint, !lfg is quite rude, coming from my experience from other servers best if you ask in tell to party leader what is going on and what help do they need, instead of forcing your tagless toon into it. I'm derailing anyway, point is that after joining you have been silent whole run, even when talked to and after I made some attempts to improve your garbage performance with spell/target advices. Heck you didn't even chat just to be a good mate, if we exclude a ''thx for run'' and log off after split. This is quite a common occurrency with many of your fellow comrades, sneaky silent weaklings that do nothing to improve and just enjoy a free ride through runs they have difficulties forming on their own (but when they do, they aren't very inclusive either). Perhalps its time to move on for good. Raj
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Post by Raj on Oct 14, 2015 16:11:07 GMT
I wanted to keep the following content separated from the main/troll/fun reply, just because who knows, maybe something useful could come out of the periodic ''stir the shit'' thread we all love (and that lured me back to this troll cave) that keep active a buried forum. [OT: about that, shameless BUMP for Ulatempa not being able to log in, he's kept out by elitist guys I swear!* ] Yeah, having 0 updates for two years and support once in a blue moon is definitely not what is making the population drop, let accuse the few guys who actually keep it alive. Max respect for devs RL, let just accept a 14y old game is not what people should focus on, but that is the problem. Long story short, if you think unshouted runs are the problem you're damn wrong. I'm not shouting a run since the population heavily dropped a couple years ago, simply because of the huge gap in player level/experience we all can witness. For example, I know everybody who's still left playing and who could be interested to join a abyss run. Sure shouting would make the server look more 'alive' but woudn't net me more bodies. Instead, not shouting has the precise result of keeping off the leechers, aka those guys who do not bother to log on if they don't see anything happening, and don't care about start some action on their own; this applies to Oinos farmers who do not bother do a "!list who all" once in a while to see if anybody logged on as well. Then there's the big sinkhole for all possible fresh HG blood: preLL tags, Immo, LL grinding. On a game this old running all that stuff over and over again is not very appealing. Helping newbies is something that requires to devote a lot of time, just unloading spare badly randomized burs and copy #15 of a bur book doesn't count as helping, in my experience people who got handouts simply left few days/weeks later so when your ego goes all fuzzy after some charity, know that your're doing it wrong. The only way to help promising newbies w/o making new toons over and over (and then accepting that a good high level server became a quite mediocre 1-40 one) is, in my expeience, after they are done at least with pre-immo stuff, but many leave before that and the prell accomplishments only make it more obvious: those tags are pretty much useless on open race toons that are soon going to be trashed, and the (forced) exploration of the pre-lloth areas is quite underwhelming, with uninteresting and unbalanced enemies that make a bad commercial of HG overall. Simply put, there're better lowbie servers around and newbies disappearing after couple weeks has nothing to do with the so perceived elitism that by definition breeds in the end game. In fact, not even running hells or abyss again is very appealing either after so long so sometime it's nice to set your own goal and challenges. I personally enjoy introducing the few survivors of the first 50 levels into end game, gives me something interesting to do on nessus#256 as long as they survive the patronizing. This is obviously something that's possible only if you move your lazy ass out of oinos/pom grinding (especially when such grinding is not inclusive either so the 40-55 road is not newbie friendly either, just a hint), and if you accept that in order to have some new mate around you have to play helpful no-tagging cores to make the run happen (yeah another hint). About challenge, there's very little of it, when the same runs who were once upon a time challenging for a full 10 men party (who used to wait 1-2 hours for a bard or druid cania tagged to log in before starting) can now be soloed with a bot or two. So if we exclude charity runs for those ''forum vets'' (can't help but smile as I type it) who refuse to improve on their own and at the same time refuse to guide the new players beside some lazy handout, the only way to make a run enjoyable for the n-th time is by going with 1) friendly people 2) less people than the max cap of 10 that makes everything a breeze/spamfest 3) less than ideal party compositions. A public shout defeats all these challenge purposes, especially if you shout for a specific class and people join with whatever as long as there're spots open, but that just makes the run similar to 1000 previous ones. Whenever a friend logs in or somebody asks nicely a spot there's usually room for them (and with usually I'm close to 100% of situations, especially when you bring something that fits the party and not mr.greedytagger/mr.Iplayshitbutyoucarryme/mrs.thxforlootbye), obviously if you do not feel the party friendly enough and prefer to hold a grudge it's your own fault. *I'm quite happy to notice some flame is able to lure Funky back here to have a laugh, hope Ula issue is getting sorted out soon.
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Post by reelroleplayer on Oct 14, 2015 17:19:33 GMT
Doubt rules would help in any way to improve such a thing, it's a state of mind of each player. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the value of a group of people working together to accomplish common goals having a shared set of guidelines that they all agree to abide by. With the proper leadership, this can definitely be accomplished - I know this for certain because I've seen it happen (it's not a concept that's specific to HG, not at all). I'm not able to volunteer for a role like that myself as I have a baby on the way and so wouldn't commit to something like that, but I do think that if someone were sufficiently motivated, had the time and desire to form a cooperative based on some basic 'don't be a jerk' and 'take some of your playtime and help others out when they need it' type of rules, I'd support them in a heartbeat. I'd also echo the thoughts of some others here that zerg style runs are not very fun to me - there's very little in the way of tactics or strategy, no discussion, just kill kill kill. I'd guess WoW is largely responsible for that; taking 5-10 minutes at the start of the run to coordinate a Skype session or some such would probably mitigate that, though.
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Post by chirality on Oct 14, 2015 17:58:59 GMT
Ray, I'm glad you decided to come back to HG. I've only ran with you a few times since then, but as always it was fun because you're a very good-natured person with a great attitude, and as far as I could ever tell you've a heart of gold . With that said, I'm confused at this thread. I don't understand why you feel such enmity for those of us who struggle to progress in our own endgame because we're trying to coordinate real people with real lives across 5 continents, while everyone else either quit HG/claimed it was dead/switched to useless HC mode (and then quit anyway)/still just play tanks in LL runs/do nothing by Hades. If you hadn't been allowed on the run, I could see a fine motivation for yet another post about elitism. Yet how does being inclusive and sharing a Nessus to any and all comers deserve another repetition of the same rants? From people who have been left by their friends to desperately leech tags from a group of people that they make no effort to get to know, hang out with, help out, or run with except when they need a tag? I'm sorry that you evidently have no better option than begging for a spot in an exclusive elitist blacklister non-shouted run, but don't you find this sort of whining to be a bit misplaced? I suppose next time you're better off not even making a sarcastic chat comment about how you couldve "used" that tag, because obviously the experience was so bad for you that you will no longer be interested in playing with such an evil group of people that's running HG into the ground by doing nessus runs and inviting everyone who showed up into the party. How rude of us to not publicly broadcast runs so that lurkers can leech tags! I mean, everyone totally agrees that every run should be shouted right? No, they don't; a DM and guild leader told me he doesn't think runs must be shouted and never agreed with the "rule", especially not "guild runs". Therefore, to everyone it may concern: stfu about it; this is the final time I read this hypocrisy before I start posting screenshots of your beloved NiceGuy admitting that it's all hogwash. If only we had "HG in mind" like your awesome Run Shouting friends that are sooooooo productive an soooooo helpful to you; just look at all the runs THEY drag YOUR tanks through, look at all the endgame content they schedule and run, look at how active they are! Cuz it's not like every time I saw you on webdash since you came back, you've been playing a druid or other caster in a hellrun while your guildmates play a bunch of tanks, right? I mean you had a druid needing ness tag. In my group of friends, that means we're doing nessus. I guess no one cared about your druid because they didnt have any SDs to tag for nessus? Maybe you'd have a better perspective if you didn't have such a long association with people that never do anything for themselves and then whine about it when they realize that they are not in fact entitled to anything (and certainly not entitled to anything from people they publicly hate on). I'm disappointed and insulted at both your snarky/sarcastic interserver chat (as if we owe Webdash lurkers anything? ), as well as miffed and put off at having my friends once again dragged through the mud on these forums for somehow being bad people, despite the fact that everything we did was absolutely contrary to elitism/exclusiveness. Next time you "could use" a run, ask some people you wouldn't trash on forums for help (aka, your friends that do so much for you)--that's what I do.
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Post by Mister Pin on Oct 14, 2015 18:04:56 GMT
Sigh, simple question, and get a boat load of charts, smoke, and subterfuge. Typical.
Play on!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2015 18:13:07 GMT
I apologize for letting frustrations I have about HG's current state overwhelm my good sense to keep my mouth shut. I should not have posted this rant. Raj, I understand your desire for a challenge. Low man groups are definitely more challenging and fun. I am not asking for EVERY run to be shouted out. Peoples like to do their guild runs, low man, "leave me alone, I wanna solo" runs. It just would be nice if deeper hells and abyss runs were shouted for those that don't have the opportunity to run those otherwise. I guess I am just a wuss because the main reason I don't ask to party with you guys is because I don't feel like being criticized behind my back. I am not some uber, exceptional builder, professional gamer. I play the game because it's fun. The condescension displayed by some of the Untouchables is quite deterring and I don't enjoy putting myself in that kind of situation. See that is not fun for me. I am impressed by your vault of screenie ammo . I just want to point out that the blacked out Hades screenie was one person boxing 10. I was wondering what kind of mob mess that creates, lol. Fun. Anyways, I am sure you are a great person when people are not stirring the old festering nasty pot. Again I apologize. Bale, I am sorry. You are a great guy.
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Post by tank on Oct 14, 2015 18:15:25 GMT
Sigh, simple question, and get a boat load of charts, smoke, and subterfuge. Typical. Play on! can you read? or do you just look at a dictionary and pick words to feel included in forum activity? there is like a bajillion reasons listed as to why there are small groups of people doing runs without shouting.
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