Post by technoprisoner on May 18, 2017 22:38:07 GMT
Thanks for the detailed review.
Is there anything AAs -could- bring? You say they don't bring buffs or auras or Epics - is there any utility that could be added that would make them more useful (while fitting with their ethos)? Could something be done with Seeker Arrow, Death Arrow, and Hail of Arrows to bring them alongside Casters?
Or are there any other ranged classes (Ranger? Divine Slinger?) that are worthwhile? Or is it Casters (with a few Tanks) all the way?
playername: Khalran toons: Mostly named Spike. (Also known as MadDwarf)
Slingers bring epics and buffs, better damage and some utility; still weak, but better than any other ranged alternative. Rangers are better in melee due to the unique positive weapon buff and anti-concealment aura; ranged ones are a toon for lazy people that is inferior to proper played casters, especially clerics, because zens focus on killing fodder that is not relevant or taken care by insta spells anyway.
All AA special skills scale poorly, but that was true even 10 years ago tbh.
Stuff that could be done: - Upgrading bows/ammunition to have multiple options to choose from for damage for non-AA's too so as to not be forced to use lowbie stuff to hit healers. Upgrading their dmg closer to that of 2-3 dice buffed weapons.
- Giving ranged Zens a conceal drop on ranged hit (target only, no aoe stuffs) - AAs infliction of dmg dealt type on hit (make artillery that is left alone scary as it should be) + giving their skills proper scaling fitting of the HG Endgame (DC that is meh in in desert probs has some issues in Limbo.) - Slingers prob fine if there were more and stronger ammunition to choose from.
Blah blah lots of potential ideas. On-hit inflictions/effects, dmg increase, poisoned ammunition and whatnot seems like an easy and rational approach.
Tbh Slingers got a lot of cool concepts that would've been very fitting for AA such as the silencing ammunition. For some reason AAs were left in the dust because of other changes to make in the game and they had their moment to shine at some point before current soon-to-be-teenagers were born, or some other reasoning.
Raj says weapon damage could use a nerf, I don't really agree. Some mobs are already so damn sturdy even with multiple decent tanks on them. If there was a nerf on (buffed) melee damage there should be a subsequent nerf to perhaps dropping 2h modfiier to 35%, dropping Concealment of mobs in general in the game, as well as some of the extreme immunities of LL areas toned down from 100% to 80% and so forth. Lot of changes would be needed, imo, to pull off a melee dmg nerf. Could be wrong tho.
i never understood the draw on HG tbh; normal NWN offers plenty of opportunity to abuse lame ranged mechanics/AI (pulling, runshoot, hiding behind summon etc) if you're the type to enjoy archers in NWN, whereas HG offers plenty of opportunity to play things other than AAs (which often are a top tier class, or the top tier class, on many servers)
NWN engine just makes archers inherently OP if in given mod they can keep up with or exceed melee tanks in either damage output, survivability, or both, imo it's the height of lameness to have a mod where archers in general and AAs in particular (dem class features doe) are given the tools--normally powerful bows or buffed AA specials--to be so powerful that they outshine melee tanks, since it's almost impossible or extremely difficult at best to properly balance a mod's pve difficulty to the point that playing "glass cannon archer" has enough downside that melee tanks are still required; aka all an archer needs is summons + abuse LoS/runshoot or at worst meat shield PC and virtually invalidate traditional "tank" (and on this point, contrary to years of nostalgic regret about days of "tanks" actually needed to protect casters/dmg dealers, i for one think it's great that "bbod/meatshield tank that all it does is defend dmg dealers" is a dead concept, it's a fun role to play for some people but in the end it's unhealthy dynamic cuz it's too ez to invalidate when power creep allows dmg dealers/casters to survive fine without it, as exactly happened on HG--it'd require constant attention and mod-wide rebalance every year to keep "meat shield that tanks but doesn't do dmg" as a valuable role, and no one has time for that), ; it's too simple and easy for skilled player to make AA with high-damage bow/ammo (relative to server) a ridiculous thing, now HG historically did a great job of doing that balance in terms of mobs vs archers/casters = need still melee tanks (aka stat check disables, anti-caster enemies, randoms dropping directly onto party's heads etc), but before melee tanks were buffed here my understanding is that an AA (or 2) were basically found in every hell party cuz OP damage output and only ancient PC power level vs pve environment made actual "tanks" still needed; but at height of pc power creep if built proper aa can tank fine as well (fallen style), and then you have similar dynamic to today's OP 2hers that may be virtually impossible to kill and also dish out insane damage, except at range, a scenario that again to me is just lame.
on HG it never made sense to me for them to be as good as a guy with a sword, i'm glad i missed the golden age of AAs cuz i'm sure it would have made me annoyed, nothing against AA fans or those who enjoyed those days, i would have definitely done it too (much as i did on every other server where archer/AA had OP potential), but it's just annoying meta imo
tldr = i don't think damage-based archer deserves to be balanced with melee tanks. it shouldn't be as good, let alone better, and to me it's a happy fact that they are trash in current meta. leave dead and ignore
Elemental/exotic damage on AA bows is now based on d20 so you'll have by far the most focused specific damage out of non caster classes although you'll have to wait until the late paragon levels to get maximum effect from this.