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Post by cathedralmaster on Feb 18, 2016 19:25:14 GMT
Which is more recommended: a turner or a caster cleric?
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Post by Matt on Feb 18, 2016 19:48:42 GMT
Caster Cleric 39/1 for the first time through. A fair amount more flexible and very useful anywhere whereas turners aren't that useful in certain places, at least in comparison.
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Post by thomascovenant on Feb 18, 2016 19:58:17 GMT
Turner are pretty and very usefull as if then cannot destroys mobs or at least have them stunned and allow others in party to finish them, but when no bard to curse mobs and for mobs who cannot be turned this can be difficult for turner to be efficient.
Cleric can do pretty nice job and they are great mobs killer and sure can be effective on all runs.
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Post by Matt on Feb 18, 2016 20:02:27 GMT
I do like turners and they are pretty uber in some runs, great crowd control and killing potential. But save it for after you've played and got to grips with a caster cleric.
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Post by Lil' Mikey (Msowby2) on Feb 18, 2016 20:03:58 GMT
40 Imploder Cleric. Ret (Scott) has a build posted if you have access to the HC Race. I've played through every run in the game with this cleric and find it very enjoyable.
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Post by desocupado on Feb 18, 2016 20:22:45 GMT
It's a pain to level a turner. Also implosion is the optimal choice to deal with several mobs.
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Post by Twilight Semner on Feb 18, 2016 20:30:54 GMT
Pure necro cleric.
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Post by simpetar on Feb 18, 2016 22:00:33 GMT
Turner are pretty and very usefull as if then cannot destroys mobs or at least have them stunned and allow others in party to finish them, but when no bard to curse mobs and for mobs who cannot be turned this can be difficult for turner to be efficient. Cleric can do pretty nice job and they are great mobs killer and sure can be effective on all runs. Bard does not help the stun check in any way: it is purely a check of your TP (based solely on turner levels and domains) vs. monster TR. As for the destruction check, turners alone can lower mob saves by 7-9, which is more than maximized curse song. Turners are great in low demi counts and not so great in high demi counts. From demi 30+ they will often struggle to even stun, let alone destroy, because TR goes up with paragon tiers, but TP does not and nothing in the game can lower TR. And you need to exceed target's TR by 10 or more to even get a shot at the destruction check. Also it can get quite boring after some time. On the bright side, you do not have to learn monster vulnerabilities, when you have just 1 major button: it either works or not Ploders are much more versatile and have more tools to play with. They are an asset in any kind of run, as opposed to turners who need a very tolerant party to drag them through Abo or Ely for instance. They require more learning. Lat but not least, ploders are lot less squishy than turners thanks to the usual monk splash for AC and discipline - needless to say that both need to stand in close proximity to mobs or even in melee range, for BT application.
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Post by Twilight Semner on Feb 18, 2016 22:02:36 GMT
Eh, I never found my pure necro ploder squishy in the slightest. Just throw on MV/gird and Gate and you're golden.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2016 22:13:56 GMT
As others have said, Caster Cleric is the 'better' toon for sure. Highly recommend you take the Evil option to use Heartbane. Max Divination/Necromancy/Evocation, as well as ESF: Enchantment (for Girding/Rebuke) and Extend Spell. Of course, 10x Great Wisdom as well.
In terms of builds, the two main options are Pure or Monk-splash; both are quite good, though the Pure build needs a bit more ability/gear/levels/subrace advantage to really pull ahead. Which option is stronger? It really does depend on the individual player.
My opinion is: *For a Cleric newbie with not much skills/money/gear/subraces, Monk-splash is slightly better. *For a skilled Cleric veteran with a high level toon and good gear/subrace, Pure is significantly better. I'm guessing you would fall somewhere in between those two ends of the spectrum, really you're the only person who can guess exactly where.
TL;DR - Go Caster Cleric, for your purposes the difference between Pure or Monk-splash is probably quite small, so pick whichever!
Edit: Mistake, no Banishment from Enchantment
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Post by chainlink on Feb 18, 2016 22:48:18 GMT
As others have said, Caster Cleric is the 'better' toon for sure. Highly recommend you take the Evil option to use Heartbane. Max Divination/Necromancy/Evocation, as well as ESF: Enchantment (for Girding/Rebuke/Banishment) and Extend Spell. Of course, 10x Great Wisdom as well. In terms of builds, the two main options are Pure or Monk-splash; both are quite good, though the Pure build needs a bit more ability/gear/levels/subrace advantage to really pull ahead. Which option is stronger? It really does depend on the individual player. My opinion is: *For a Cleric newbie with not much skills/money/gear/subraces, Monk-splash is slightly better. *For a skilled Cleric veteran with a high level toon and good gear/subrace, Pure is significantly better. I'm guessing you would fall somewhere in between those two ends of the spectrum, really you're the only person who can guess exactly where. TL;DR - Go Caster Cleric, for your purposes the difference between Pure or Monk-splash is probably quite small, so pick whichever!Plus maximum spell penetration feats too. Also as you've not played a cleric for a while you'll love heartbane, see that annoying spinagon halfway across the map...............poof nope its gone
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Post by Twilight Semner on Feb 18, 2016 23:09:07 GMT
Yes, the most ridiculously strong part of Heartbane is its absurd range. <3
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Post by woqued on Feb 19, 2016 0:02:49 GMT
As others have said, Caster Cleric is the 'better' toon for sure. Highly recommend you take the Evil option to use Heartbane. Max Divination/Necromancy/Evocation, as well as ESF: Enchantment (for Girding/Rebuke/Banishment) and Extend Spell. Of course, 10x Great Wisdom as well. In terms of builds, the two main options are Pure or Monk-splash; both are quite good, though the Pure build needs a bit more ability/gear/levels/subrace advantage to really pull ahead. Which option is stronger? It really does depend on the individual player. My opinion is: *For a Cleric newbie with not much skills/money/gear/subraces, Monk-splash is slightly better. *For a skilled Cleric veteran with a high level toon and good gear/subrace, Pure is significantly better. I'm guessing you would fall somewhere in between those two ends of the spectrum, really you're the only person who can guess exactly where. TL;DR - Go Caster Cleric, for your purposes the difference between Pure or Monk-splash is probably quite small, so pick whichever!I really don't agree with monksplash being better for newbie, I never understood the logic. Pure has more leeway with poor flatfoot(defensive casting) performance, and has higher imms which scales infinitely better with gate+gr than AC does. Edit: on topic: caster clerics rock. I dunno **** about turners besides ppl crying about them in high demi groups and abyss.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2016 0:56:13 GMT
Just to re-state, it's purely my opinion and these comparisons are always subjective.
My logic is mostly that IMO the splash build is more forgiving to gear, and without a good subrace you can't fit as much Abjuration foci so the AC with poor gear is really quite low on a fresh Pure build. Better players can get away with no AC but I reckon it's important for newbies. Also less skilled players tend to struggle with Battletide positioning so the extra +1 save-drop is not fully taken advantage of.
Without Paragon levels and good positioning the slag potential is also much higher for Pure, which is quite manageable for skilled/high-level (positioning, Paragon Discipline, low AC option of Robes/Sparten) toons but much less so for newbies.
Of course, as you said the added immunities are quite significant, and the AC boost from splash is not gigantic at x0, so it's not as though Pure is bad at all.
So I do think for a *total* newbie the splash build is *slightly* more playable. For what it's worth, my first Cleric was an Open Sub Pure and I had absolutely no regrets.
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Post by cathedralmaster on Feb 19, 2016 1:10:52 GMT
So definitely caster. Something along the lines of this?
"Half-Celestial" (secret Beyond UltraRare; adds wings) - FC: Cleric - WIS +6, CHA +4, free feat: Spell Focus Evocation, free feat: Greater Spell Focus Evocation, free feat: Epic Skill Focus Heal, sr 10 + 1/lvl, able to walk on quicksand, speaks Celestial
Base Race: Human Subrace: Half-Celestial Schools: Artifact: Pyramid Energy Pandect: Tome: Enchantment!
Abilities: STR: 8 (8) DEX: 14 (14) CON: 12 (12) INT: 12 (12) WIS: 18 (24) CHA: 8 (12)
Skills: Concentration Discipline Heal Tumble
Craft Armor
Feats: (8 Pre-epic, 7 Epic, 6 Class Epic, 7 Legendary)
1. Cleric - Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration 2. Cleric - 3. Cleric - Extend Spell 4. Cleric - Wis +1 (25) 5. Cleric - 6. Cleric - Spell Focus (Necromancy) 7. Cleric - 8. Cleric - Wis +1 (26) 9. Cleric - Spell Focus (Divination) 10. Cleric - 11. Cleric - 12. Cleric - Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy), Wis +1 (27) 13. Cleric - 14. Cleric - 15. Cleric - Greater Spell Focus (Divination) 16. Cleric - Wis +1 (28) 17. Cleric - 18. Cleric - 1 feat 19. Cleric - 20. Cleric - Wis +1 (29) 21. Cleric - Epic Spell Penetration 22. Cleric - 23. Cleric - Epic Spell Focus (Evocation) 24. Cleric - Epic Spell Focus (Divination), Wis +1 (30) 25. Cleric - 26. Cleric - Epic Spell Focus (Necromancy) 27. Cleric - Great Wisdom I (31) 28. Cleric - Wis +1 (32) 29. Cleric - Great Wisdom II (33) 30. Cleric - Great Wisdom III (34) 31. Cleric - 32. Cleric - Great Wisdom IV (35), Wis +1 (36) 33. Cleric - Great Wisdom V (37) 34. Cleric - 35. Cleric - Great Wisdom VI (38) 36. Cleric - Great Wisdom VII (39), Wis +1 (40) 37. Cleric - 38. Cleric - Great Wisdom VIII (41) 39. Cleric - Great Wisdom IX (42) 40. Monk - Wis +1 (43) ------ 41. Cleric - 42. Cleric - Legendary Spell Penetration, Wis +1 (44) 43. Cleric - 44. Cleric - Wis +1 (45) 45. Cleric - LSF (Evocation) 46. Cleric - Wis +1 (46) 47. Cleric - 48. Cleric - LSF (Necromancy), Wis +1 (47) 49. Cleric - 50. Cleric - Wis +1 (48) 51. Cleric - LSF (Divination) 52. Cleric - Wis +1 (49) 53. Cleric - 54. Cleric - 1 feat, Wis +1 (50) 55. Cleric - 56. Cleric - Wis +1 (51) 57. Cleric - Great Wisdom X (52) 58. Cleric - Wis +1 (53) 59. Cleric - 60. Cleric - 1 feat, Wis +1 (54) ------- 61. Cleric - 62. Cleric - 63. Cleric - Paragon Spell Focus () 64. Cleric - 65. Cleric - 66. Cleric - Paragon Spell Knowledge () 67. Cleric - 68. Cleric - 69. Cleric - Paragon Spell Penetration 70. Cleric - 71. Cleric - 72. Cleric - Paragon Spell Focus: 73. Cleric - 74. Cleric - 75. Cleric - Paragon Spell Focus: 76. Cleric - 77. Cleric - 78. Cleric - 1 feat 79. Cleric - 80. Cleric -
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