Roll 1 & 20

[billys22]

I was wondering if it possible to change the general rules for saves "Roll 1 = Automatic Failure" and  "Roll 20 = Automatic success"
these rules makes all saves useless 10% of the time

[simpetar]

These are some of the most fundamental mechanics of d20 system and NWN as its extension. I do not think they should be changed, even if they could (code-wise). Keep in mind that it applies to both players and monsters, so you get some merit from that too. You can eventually make yourself completely immune to nearly everything that forces a save, regardless of success / failure: it adds another level of challenge though. If you could get all for free just from high saves, you would see an entirely new level of undesirable power creep.

TL;DR The 10% you call "useless" can very easily be perceived as fun and challenge by others.

[Twilight Semner]

Automatic Failure and Success add a necessary degree of uncertainty and, for many builds, a built-in balance factor. My paladin has close to 90 on every save. Without automatic failure, he would literally never fail a single saving throw in the mod. That's just boring. Heck, I'd be more willing to part with automatic success on a 20 than automatic failure.

[billys22]

I think in Xulrae run some Drows when they hit Critical the character has to make a reflex save or die
now if a build rely for his defence on damage resistance and damage immunity like a Dwarven Defender or an Accursed Pariah they have like 0.001% to finish this run
I also like the random factor but not like this

[chainlink]

Other than greater ruin, implode and the real mortal strike that a couple of mobs have I don't believe there is anything in Manatakloss that can instakill you if you have all the correct immunities and of course there's the Preservation shield to prevent plode deaths. Bear in mind it's a party server so you won't normally be doing things solo.

[billys22]

I just went into the run and when i find 2 of those i kill the one and let the other attack me until i roll 1
here is the combat log




that attack kills the character from 800+ hp

[Deleted]

Yes, we know. It's part of the game.
As others already stated, auto-fail on 1 (for standard saves, not ability checks) is a core aspect to HG, and provides value to true immunities as well as adding challenge and depth. I *guarantee* you that Funky is never going to remove it.

If an area is difficult for you, try getting a party organised for it - this is a party server, after all.

[Raj]

That looks like a Vorpal on Hit dc 14.

It's not something you cannot avoid, because you can play with terrain, summons, disable spells, or simply not get hit and crit. I'm sure after all precautions are taken, the chances to die against such a lame check are definitely lower than 1 in a 20. Such spammed low-dc checks are rare and are more a way to keep you focused on perfect play or just bring a party of friends with you. I know it sux rolling 1s, especially against such low DCs, but the alternative is dumbing down the end game for everything who splashes paladin/blackguard.

Were you using Stone Bones btw? That spell provides a sort of critical hit immunity but atm it doesn't protect against called shot/mortal strike (I'd rate that as a bug already), maybe it wasn't even working against that?

[billys22]

As you can see that build have 62 ac and even if go with a help there i must be all the time under Greater Sanctuary effect and do nothing ...this kind of build dies every 1 min there ...i will just hold the team back if i decide to help a bit
the only way to prevent it is to get the critical immunity ring and that ruin my build-idea

[Raj]

Apr 29, 2016 10:27:04 GMT Raj said:

you can play with terrain, summons, disable spells, or simply not get hit and crit.

AC would obviously help with the last issue, and at 40 you could sure improve it by a lot. I see you pretty much play with damage shields and focus on getting hit to retaliate: obviously the strategy has to be changed for those specific encounters. Just a quick hint, in Legendary Levels and beyond such strategy is not viable anymore. Even if those ''roll 1 and die'' checks are rare, you might have to use crowd control or let somebody/something else tank for you.

Drow areas are in my opinion the first big obstacle new players have to deal with because soloing becomes impratical. Dieing on a 1 is indeed lame but there're builds/gear options that prevent that. In alternative, until you find/learn about those, a resurrection from a party member is the next best help.

As others pointed out, even w/o being in charge here, we can all safely assume such a basic rule of D&D won't get changed even if it's as simple as changing a 0 to 1 in "Saving Throw Automatic Failure On 1" under [Server Options], because it'll work way too much to players advantage.

[billys22]

It is a character with 2 hands feats i got Ambidexterity at 1 level "Deap Orc" Subrace set dex to 13 and then at 18 character level Accursed Pariah set it for a second time to 6
I am using damage shields from 34 level Sorcerer but i also rely on ab (55 iirc) with 7-8 attacks per round
to raise AC must get a shield and that will drop the attacks per round to 3
it is going to be a slow run but it might work
just hoping this will be the last on hit Vorpal


I think we can change the saving throw automatic rule if at the same time adjust the saves from mobs
this will also leave a room to remove all the spell immunities like Implosion i think that all boosses have

[tomaan]

Apr 29, 2016 13:45:57 GMT billys22 said:

It is a character with 2 hands feats i got Ambidexterity at 1 level "Deap Orc" Subrace set dex to 13 and then at 18 character level Accursed Pariah set it for a second time to 6
I am using damage shields from 34 level Sorcerer but i also rely on ab (55 iirc) with 7-8 attacks per round
to raise AC must get a shield and that will drop the attacks per round to 3
it is going to be a slow run but it might work
just hoping this will be the last on hit Vorpal


I think we can change the saving throw automatic rule if at the same time adjust the saves from mobs
this will also leave a room to remove all the spell immunities like Implosion i think that all boosses have

Your issue is AC, not rolling 1s.

62 AC isn't high enough to solo tank the drow areas, it needs to be 80+ at least. Look at the log - the crit that killed you landed on a 17 - for a tank, you want them to ONLY hit you with a 20 (or maybe 19 if you're playing in a higher level area). With a low AC, you will always be susceptible to something -- in legendary levels you will be afflicted with vulnerabilities. If you need gear, try the bazaar channel - you should be able to get +12 armor/shield and +13-15 on natural/dodge/deflection items for a reasonable amount of gold . That alone will bump your AC into the mid-high 80s.


You might also want to research some of the pariah builds posted here: highergroundpoa.proboards.com/board/73/accursed-pariah-builds

As Rajah indicated, a Pariah will not successfully tank legendary levels (trust me...I tried it several times). It really is meant to be a caster with defense, not a tank with spells -- for that option, you might want to consider a Bane Knight.


EDIT: another thing...I play tanks exclusively and most on this server are damage soakers or damage avoiders. Dex monk is probably the most user friendly if you don't have a lot of good gear, but damage output is minimal. xDD (human/bugbear) is another that will get you through level 50 at least with minimal gear (by then, you should have enough to get you to level 60). If you're looking for a damage dealing tank, go with Barbarian/Fighter (for weapon specialization). I think the other damage tanks are just too gear-dependent and wouldn't recommend them until you are well-stocked.

[simpetar]

Apr 29, 2016 13:45:57 GMT billys22 said:

It is a character with 2 hands feats i got Ambidexterity at 1 level "Deap Orc" Subrace set dex to 13 and then at 18 character level Accursed Pariah set it for a second time to 6
I am using damage shields from 34 level Sorcerer but i also rely on ab (55 iirc) with 7-8 attacks per round
to raise AC must get a shield and that will drop the attacks per round to 3

With higher AC you will die lot less, because if they cannot hit you very often, you will be forced less saves and less 1s will occur. You need to first stay alive if you want to contribute to the party.

Pariahs are casters, not tanks. Their strength is in superb spell penetration and very high DC, at the cost of smaller spell selection than a real sorcerer. Melee pariahs can work in 1-40 range, but as soon as you venture in Manataklos and beyond, you get a tough reality check. My advice would be: focus on casting spells.

[Sapphire [SL]]

Just a thought here, what if the auto failure was modded slighly that you had to fail a d20 roll twice. Now am not suggesting rolling a '1' twice but a '1' in the first instance and then a check to roll a d20 on 5 or less for the second roll..