Off-topic: Character Reset x Replay Value

[desocupado]

I was watching a video on a famous game 3rd installment versus it's second installment and remembered the discussion that emerged every so often.

Personally I'm a fan of free reset (or reincarnation as it is called here). And I think it would be much more fitting to reward demi cycles per different character you take through Hells or abyss (more on a videogame account-wide achievement than a simulation of a single character growth).

I know this is an individual stance but we can discuss the idea can't we? I'm not advocating a change or anything but I would like to hear why each person likes or not about the rules on building multiple characters.


---Edit: Questions:---

Jun 1, 2016 20:14:03 GMT desocupado said:

1 - Would you play new/different/more characters without the tag/xp pressure? Would you fill more class requirements to form runs?
2 - Do you not play different characters because they start of weak and on parts of mod you don't want to play again?
3 - Do you participate in runs because of loot? Or because of tags (like demigodhood)? Because you enjoy playing as X? (maybe all at once? maybe something else?)
4 - Do you often not participate in a run because you aren't tagging?

[Deleted]

Less barriers to changing spells, foci, feats, etc. are welcome. Using reinc to completely change classes from a sorc to a GI every 6 months is really weird, though.

[desocupado]

Is it really odd?
All your characters are "insert key/username" (yourself).
Same goes for items, bank, cash. In fact they even share the same player knowledge, skill and time.

And most important, having to grind xp is a bit unsatisfying (we can grind gear anyway).

[Deleted]

This is essentially open XP banking (freely transferring experience/tags to different toons without restrictions).

Jan 30, 2014 21:32:26 GMT FunkySwerve said:

For a whole host of reasons I'm not prepared to rehash, we have never and will never do xp banking. Reincarnation is as close as we're going to get to it, and is already closer than I'd like.

Funky

[desocupado]

Thanks for the quote poly, I was already aware of the his position. That's why I posted this on off topic forum and not on suggestion forums. (UPDATE: changed the title to clear this up)

I just want to understand what (gameplay) fantasy this is fulfilling and how people perceive it. The video reminded me of the possibilities.
My curiosity comes from both my seldom updated blog and experience on another game modding community. And of course, other games.


For instance I can understand the joy of experiencing all content again on a single player game as a completely different character.
But I think things feel a bit odd on a multiplayer game. And when you consider the "character diversity" to "play time required to finish a build" ratio.

[Twilight Semner]

May 31, 2016 23:29:33 GMT desocupado said:

Is it really odd?
All your characters are "insert key/username" (yourself).
Same goes for items, bank, cash. In fact they even share the same player knowledge, skill and time.

And most important, having to grind xp is a bit unsatisfying (we can grind gear anyway).

This logic is horribly flawed. If all classes were identical, then yes, you'd have a point. But instead, you have a blatant false equivalent. Your skill with a certain build or class is not equivalent to your overall skill as a player, nor does it translate to skill with other classes. For example, I might get 200 kills a run with my sorcerer, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be an incredible druid player. The two simply aren't the same. While your basic knowledge of the mod might increase with time and experience, your knowledge of a specific class only increases as you play that class, and your knowledge of specific mob vulnerabilities is in many cases particular to that specific class, or even that specific build and spell foci choices. You simply cannot equate or reward players with achievements in classes where they have no experience.

[Lil' Mikey (Msowby2)]

Not all classes are created equal- meaning different classes have a different experience in the same area. A Sorc is going to have a different experience in hells than a cleric per say due to their difference in spell and play-style. While switching between classes on the same character is convenient, I believe it really damages the various experiences of starting characters FRESH in "end-game" content. You NEED to struggle on a class those first few demi cycles- then decide what you need to change as a player and then how you can positively change the build. To get a cheese sorc to x5 and then make it into another, more difficult to play class, where is the challenge? Where are the tactics you learn on a specific class? It's not fair to award you a x5 character multi-classed character when you were only successful in one.

[desocupado]

Jun 1, 2016 13:49:00 GMT Twilight Semner said:

This logic is horribly flawed. If all classes were identical, then yes, you'd have a point. But instead, you have a blatant false equivalent. Your skill with a certain build or class is not equivalent to your overall skill as a player, nor does it translate to skill with other classes. For example, I might get 200 kills a run with my sorcerer, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be an incredible druid player. The two simply aren't the same. While your basic knowledge of the mod might increase with time and experience, your knowledge of a specific class only increases as you play that class, and your knowledge of specific mob vulnerabilities is in many cases particular to that specific class, or even that specific build and spell foci choices. You simply cannot equate or reward players with achievements in classes where they have no experience.

There is a common skill. What mob X does, who can kill it. Who can be disable by X, Y or Z skill, who needs to be bashed to death, who you mustn't hit, what kind of resistance/immunity is required.

If I understood your counterpoints revolve around the notion that power is a reward you must earn per character. Then I ask you, Isn't sharing gold, gear or race tags not adequate? Isn't it "unfair" that your druid uses the Rilmani drop from your 50 hours playing as cleric or the wisdom artifact dropped by you threader on pyramids?

I find this odd because it increases the gap between newer and older HG players - i.e. not only is player X unexperienced as a druid, but he's also much weaker than player Y's druid.
So when player X becomes good, player Y, did he do so because he improved a lot or just because he learned a handful things and got a lot more powerful on his character?

Jun 1, 2016 18:29:48 GMT Lil' Mikey (Msowby2) said:

Not all classes are created equal- meaning different classes have a different experience in the same area. A Sorc is going to have a different experience in hells than a cleric per say due to their difference in spell and play-style. While switching between classes on the same character is convenient, I believe it really damages the various experiences of starting characters FRESH in "end-game" content. You NEED to struggle on a class those first few demi cycles- then decide what you need to change as a player and then how you can positively change the build. To get a cheese sorc to x5 and then make it into another, more difficult to play class, where is the challenge? Where are the tactics you learn on a specific class? It's not fair to award you a x5 character multi-classed character when you were only successful in one.

So becoming a x5 is a reward? I thought it mean only to be more powerful, like maximizing level or optimizing a build (some people like building, but this isn't required to have a good build, you can just follow a good build). A numerical advantage. (I find the x5 bonus really too huge tough)

You can learn tactics if you enjoy playing a class without a grind xp/tags/demi cycles pressure, no? You can also be really bad on a class and grind stuff slowly.

--------------------
I'd throw around some questions:

1 - Would you play new/different/more characters without the tag/xp pressure? Would you fill more class requirements to form runs?
2 - Do you not play different characters because they start of weak and on parts of mod you don't want to play again?
3 - Do you participate in runs because of loot? Or because of tags (like demigodhood)? Because you enjoy playing as X? (maybe all at once? maybe something else?)
4 - Do you often not participate in a run because you aren't tagging?

[cathedralmaster]

The largest barrier to making new characters for me is the awful lowbie tags. Does anyone find them fun after the second, third time? Blizzard has progressively made WoW leveling easier. Maybe HG should take a page from their book.

[Lil' Mikey (Msowby2)]

Jun 2, 2016 1:38:09 GMT cathedralmaster said:

The largest barrier to making new characters for me is the awful lowbie tags. Does anyone find them fun after the second, third time? Blizzard has progressively made WoW leveling easier. Maybe HG should take a page from their book.

Tags never have been a requirement to progress after pre LL, they are insentivised enough by the % immunity and bonus xp the system awards if you complete them all. Leveling from 1-40 is rather simple if you farm certain mobs and don't worry about the tags. I've always thought in regards to leveling the real "fun" starts from 55-80, where you face various, diverse, enemies that test the constructivity of not only your builds, but of your teammates as well. As for me, I've maybe done all the pre LL tags on 2-3 toons out of several? I don't have a particular interest to do everything- some people do, it's all about personal preference.

[Deleted]

Jun 2, 2016 1:38:09 GMT cathedralmaster said:

The largest barrier to making new characters for me is the awful lowbie tags. Does anyone find them fun after the second, third time? Blizzard has progressively made WoW leveling easier. Maybe HG should take a page from their book.

They are really fast if you have a proper group (basically, a sorc). This is more or less due to PoA design, where the areas are designed for parties and not solo play. If you have a 2nd cd key, dual boxing a sorc makes pre-LL tags quite manageable; otherwise you should ignore them and log in with a proxy when there is a group available.