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Post by dante2377 on Sept 1, 2016 22:19:34 GMT
So I was looking to get started at HG as the other servers I've been on dwindled away and I'd like to ask for recommendations on a build type that vets would recommend for a first character here. Normally in an unknown environment, I'd play either a battle cleric (cleric 26 bard 4 rdd10) or a dex-based ftr/rogue/wm with SC5 and lots of rogue skills, but with the specialized Leg and paragon levels, I didn't want to choose something that wouldn't be playable (or that vets wouldn't want including in groups as I get higher).
I've played POA before for a few months, at a lower magic server, though I am familiar with Lvl60 and up places such as The Awakening and Aventia. I usually start with melee or self-buffers to get acclimated but also blaster clerics and druids as well.
Any advice is welcome. I see the open subrace build forum, but most of those are several years old and I didn't know if with all the updates, that advice was still relevant.
thanks in advance!
Dante
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Post by amano666 on Sept 2, 2016 1:51:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2016 9:04:35 GMT
Hi there, welcome to HG! I didn't want to choose something that wouldn't be playable (or that vets wouldn't want including in groups as I get higher). This is good thinking. While there is always an element of "you should play whatever you think is fun!", the reality is that the main endgame areas you will encounter (notably Hell) are very biased towards spell casters. In particular, 'ABCD cores' are highly desired, and are often able to finish the entire run by themselves. A: Arcane (Sorcerer, or the moderately inferior Wizard) - 'Jack of all trades' in terms of what spells it brings to the table, and especially good at dealing burst damage. B: Bard - Utility class that supports the rest of the party and debuffs enemies with Curse Song, while having a huge amount of tanking potential. C: Cleric - One of the best insta-killers in the game (both AoE and single-target), while also carrying a lot of useful support abilities. D: Druid - Provides the best spell resistance debuff which is necessary for some of the nastier endgame mobs, while also carrying insta-kill and direct damage potential and unique support abilities to boot. Of the four classes, I feel that Cleric or Druid make the best toons for new players. They are two classes which are often lacking in parties, so it lets you fill a useful niche in the party. Sorcerers are also very strong, but I feel that they are less effective as 'run-enablers' than Cleric or Druid, and in many cases they are better used to supplement a solid party as opposed to actually *carrying* the group. Bards are essential, but unfortunately don't have much solo-playing potential. Unless you are consistently playing with friends, it can be hard to find a party to support at times, so I feel that this isn't the greatest first-timer class. I personally think Druid is the highest impact class (and also the rarest), but the downside is that it's also harder to play - many 'decent players' on the server are competent with Arcane/Bard/Cleric but very weak with Druid. My vote would be to go with the Druid if you feel you are experienced with casters in NWN and have the drive to master it. If you are a bit hesitant, Cleric is also good but you will have less 'carry potential'. If you are more interested in casual play than seriously progressing through the server's endgame, it's safe to disregard all of the above and just pick whatever you think sounds the most fun. Yes, the builds are mostly out-dated. The biggest issue I have with the Open Subraces Forum is that many of the builds are written as a sales pitch ("this build is cool because XYZ"), but neglect to mention that the build is non-viable for the endgame areas. The truth is that basically any build is able to do okay from Levels 1-60, but 60+ areas put certain classes to the test. The 'Dashing Daring Dwarven Diva' build linked above is a good example of something that is cool enough from 1-60 but will totally fall off in endgame areas - in general, melee builds need good gear (ie: a rich player) to be effective in the endgame. Anyway, more on topic... your post reminded me to do something I put off for a long time; updating some of the builds in the Open Subrace section. I've quickly scraped together a basic build/guide for Druid and Cleric today, just follow the links. Feel free to ask any questions via forum threads or PMs.
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Post by desocupado on Sept 2, 2016 9:56:51 GMT
Caster druid is the best bet. It's far more enjoyable between levels 1-55 than the others.
Make sure to follow a "recent" build.
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Post by condude on Sept 4, 2016 15:32:07 GMT
Hey Dante! The wiki has some really useful information, as was mentioned earlier. This page in particular is great for when you're looking for a build. Blue builds are tried and true, while greens are open subrace. I'd recommend a blue one if you can find one with an open subrace, but many of the greens are great too. One thing this server is huge on is min/maxing. Most builds (especially casters) worth their salt take all 10 great ability feats, plus focus in certain schools (spell focus all the way to legendary spell focus). They also put every single point into their primary stat. The reason for this is generally that the endgame is balanced for tmin/maxed builds, and if your DC is too far off, you'll end up fishing for ones. As for the first class to play, a battle cleric isn't a bad call at all. They're really tanky and bring most, if not all, of the support of a caster cleric. Like was mentioned above though, ABCD are the core classes, and if you play a caster version of one of them, you should be in pretty good stead. Welcome to HG!
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Post by tomaan on Sept 6, 2016 18:56:25 GMT
I've played POA before for a few months, at a lower magic server, though I am familiar with Lvl60 and up places such as The Awakening and Aventia. I usually start with melee or self-buffers to get acclimated but also blaster clerics and druids as well. If you like melee and self-buffers, try: 1) dex Monk -- low gear-dependency, high survivability, lowest party benefit (mostly rezzing) but hardest to kill of the three 2) xDD -- medium gear-dependency, medium survivability, highest party benefit (fear aura) but easiest to kill of the three 3) dex Ranger -- high gear-dependency, high survivability, medium party benefit (decent kill total) and medium kill-difficulty....one of the most balanced non-casters on the server IMO of course
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Post by rainbowdash on Sept 6, 2016 19:14:07 GMT
Generally speaking opinions really differ depending on where people are playing. If you aim to play mostly from level 1-40 like some people do u can really experiment a lot with builds.
But beyond that point I would suggest to follow polis advice. He also posted 3 different versions of druid and cleric builds that work great in about all instances of the mod. (and they are UP TO DATE which most builds on the wiki arent!)
I myself started out playing a melee because that's what I mostly enjoyed before HG but it really gets punished especially in the 40-60 areas of the server.
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Post by louisvilleslugger on Sept 6, 2016 23:48:11 GMT
Druid. Poli is wise.
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Post by chirality on Sept 7, 2016 5:44:21 GMT
druid sux, nerfed dumpster tier people just want you to play them so there's a new druid around since no one else wants to do it and barding is a lot lower-maintenance for boxers so it's easier for boxing HGers (aka 99% of current playerbase) to do a passable job of the recommended first build for exploring is same as ever and always will be, arcane, nothing else compares as far as run-enabling goes, it really doesn't matter as much as self-sufficiency, so if you make a cleric or druid understand that you're not going to be doing much of anything on your own time when it comes to the 4 cores they're basically already in alphabetic order as far as what's best to start with, arcane > bard > cleric > druid, arcane 1st without question because it has the most independence/DIY/utility/soloability/farming power and least reliance on others to do anything, cleric and druid are far less self-sufficient than a mage and most importantly as a starter are lot more reliant than a mage on having extra foci schools from subraces/high levels; in 2nd/3rd places bard/cleric are close but bard edges out cleric because it's the one class very few people prefer to play, and it doesn't require learning spell vulnerabilities but instead gives you time to watch and learn from what clerics do; cleric is a great choice but it's just not as "in-demand" as bard and is a lot easier to play; druid is dead last because it's simply not a class for newbies in terms of "friendliness to easily surviving and properly utilizing class features and doing the job the role requires", and now it's not even that important anyway for casual/avg player, most clerics/arcanes sux so dropping SR is useless without them knowing what to cast in the first place, but they have PSP anyway, generally it's a lot of PL tanks and instakillers doing the heavy lifting in avg PUG, most PUGs regularly run shallow-mid hells without NB and if you bring a druid you're gonna watch a bunch of tanks smack green mobs until they die make a sorc so you can learn the primary elements of arcane role and the basics of playing a caster in general along the way, it's hands-down the least gear- and subrace-intensive class as well as the most OP one and friendliest to beginner, and you end up with a versatile solo-potential toon that's capable of both farming you gear/cash as well as filling an essential (at best, = the majority of runs) or extremely useful but-perhaps-not-required (at worst, = shallow-mid hells) role on absolutely any run in the game ps ignore the outdated wiki page full of lies with its misleading color highlight scheme pps battle cleric is a bad call ppps don't make a tank
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Post by desocupado on Sept 7, 2016 11:47:05 GMT
The druid is necessary for a good experience 1-55. It won't have the same damage as arcane 63+ but that's a long way in.
Chiliarity is focused on the 61+content. Altough some tags (1-40 content) require (are easier to kill) magic damage without reflex save (cleric/arcane have it), you can try their divine, primal, positive or psionic for those cases (but some of those can be avoided with bosses' improved evasion and spell level immunity)
Basically you'll use evocation, transmutation and conjuration for a good offensive and supportive spell coverage. Conjuration in particular will be great for leveling 41-55 in the desert.
With a monk splash your ac will be pretty good leaving only saves, hp, stat check and discipline as weakness. Those can be worked around.
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Post by chirality on Sept 7, 2016 18:48:42 GMT
The druid is necessary for a good experience 1-55. Completely opposite from reality. Druid is the least important class in 1-40 41-55. It won't have the same damage as arcane 63+ but that's a long way in. I never mentioned damage, at any level, and this lacks any relationship to either my post or my suggestion. Of course, since you bring it up, druid won't match arcane in damage at any level either, if you really must compare. You seem to indicate that pre-63 arcane can be matched in damage by a druid (dunno why you picked 63, is that supposed to be assuming that sorc picking PSP affects 1-55 dmg?) false btw, even before rg/fiss nerf; it's completely true that druids can dish out immense damage in early LL runs and in 35-40 zones, but comparing directly to a sorc is bad; druid has some awesome nukes and soups but they at best compare, not exceed, for example arcane evo nukes + IGMS + evards; open/secret subrace x0 druid vs sorc will have no empower first of all, which is a huge difference, and that combined with greater variety of actual damaging spells to be cast i could just stop typing there, but here's more: far less slots available, second of all, and less slots = less damage output; then there's autochannel for +1 DC/CL leaving druid CL-based damage -2 vs sorc (sure, tiny detail, but it's not like i brought up the comparison). It's clear that you're picturing ele swarm zomg uberness for DB, or bombs/quill/vortex for those "tuff" lowbie tags, but it's wrong; sorc has more damage power, and let's consider what's more realistic for a new player to adapt with and improve when he learns damage types? a sorc with spontaneous casting that sees X type works better so simply starts casting another L7 spell (or gasp, or a druid with no empower and no useful aoe nuke below L9 and a spellbook to prep?) Chiliarity is focused on the 61+content. False and dumb assumption; are you seriously saying that I'm telling him to play a mage for limbo? wtf? Basically you'll use evocation, transmutation and conjuration for a good offensive and supportive spell coverage. Conjuration in particular will be great for leveling 41-55 in the desert. Ah, finally the real awesomeness of druid being "necessary" for a good LL experience exposed! Wooohooo....druid can use ele swarm in desert (rock) With a monk splash your ac will be pretty good leaving only saves, hp, stat check and discipline as weakness. Those can be worked around. lulz, oh okay, "only" those as weakness? considering a lack of uber conceal (meaning any FF or disable = instadeath with robe imms) GV to reposition, BBOD for unkillable tanksummon,mords for dispelling+long range ninja sr drop, epic wall, it's a lot harsher than arcane, and again back to my original point, leaves pretty useless soloing anything except desert at higher LLs, which is ridiculous in the 1st place; desert xp sux as bad as druid does after immute/fiss/rg nerf, and a sorc GV thru to grab runes and moves to farm DB, while druid lacks any GS option until new player is no longer new, and cmon it doesn't even have DoM or wall for DB fight, this is such a fail comparison tl;dr druid isn't required for any good experience 1-55, stop giving bad advice; in fact it's the mage which is required for a good experience 1-55, which is why it's the king of self-sufficiency and farming as well as group play, and why i recommended it
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Post by Lil' Mikey (Msowby2) on Sept 7, 2016 19:31:06 GMT
I played Druid when I first came here (and came to love it) but the nerfs have killed it's damage potential. It's disabling and instant kills are still okay but given the most recent changes to spells (such as poison) I think Cleric is the best core for a newbie to play- GATE and defense being the main reason. Arcane is always a good choice but imo its easier to make a "better" Cleric/Druid vs a Sorc (or wiz) because of the Wisdom UR races that are relatively cheap.
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Post by desocupado on Sept 7, 2016 20:59:07 GMT
Shunt (people don't start with elemental rings) and good ac/storm tower (archers are a bane for level 49- casters - even dark elves, cough, cough). Also not crying during the first Ssithrak Dimension or Mycho run is fun, since kb will be much more manageable and ranged attack better to handle.
Dropping elemental swarm on desert/db is great indeed. Bombardment also works wonders there and on other LL and pre-LL runs. Also you don't see to put emphasis on how the druid's superior SR drop has a great mileage while leveling. (cleric's bt and prayer also have such potential, but sr drop is needed for it to work during the leveling process) Also putting good grease, SoV and stonehold help a lot to feel useful.
Also the sad part of being a cleric is the lack damage (and skill points for lore).
The person isn't power-leveling or farming having knowledge and gear, he's exploring on a party server.
Given a Dryad's 28 feats during 1-60 (7+7+7+4+3 +tome) it's even possible to ditch 2 metamagic for Legendary reflex+fort (+6) or grab epic reflexes/fortitude and empower.
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Post by simpetar on Sept 8, 2016 19:29:42 GMT
Bale keep in mind that you are advising a brand new player with 0 rings, and 0 readily available gear in general once you hit certain level/tag threshold. Druids have easier times thanks to shunt, innately high AC as well as some semi decent meatshields early on (the bird). The game does not "start" at lvl 60, neither at lvl 40. For a newcomer it indeed starts the moment they set foot in the docks at lvl 1, and druids who can equip just about anything that drops form anywhere (up to medium armor and shield), with decent mix of available cc, instakills and damage and few other perks have the edge. Arcanes (sorcs) are unrivaled powerhouses, but druids are easier to start with and discover the server. Nuff said.
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Post by dante2377 on Sept 8, 2016 20:21:28 GMT
So I've been using the cleric build that Poli posted in the open subrace forum. I've gotten it up to level 8 mostly solo + summon, though that's been spread over ~3 nights of playing. Kind of meh to cast a few spells and then become battle cleric with a strength of 6 (i found a few strength items). Now that I've got hammer of gods it's a bit more helpful (to go with sound burst and some low level spells), but the areas are getting a ton of ranged spawns, so i can't really herd them effectively.
Would it be more effective/faster exploring and leveling to go with something like battle cleric for 40 levels and gather gold and gear and start a new character more endgame focused?
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