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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2016 1:31:24 GMT
One option, similar to what Deso is saying, would be to radically increase the drop rate of URs and BURs in Limbo. Something like Hells tables moved up by one tier. E.g. Limbo BURs drop at the same rate as Hells URs etc. XRs can be kept the way they are. That way we'd create demand for Limbos: it's the best place to farm BURs, but not cheapen XRs. This way, even failed Limbo runs should get some reasonable amount of loot, rather than a rather negligible amount. I really like this way of looking at it, and it actually makes the most sense when compared to the rest of the module: *Late Pre-LL Areas: Few Rares, lots of Uncommons *Mid-LL Areas: Few URs, lots of Rares *Level 60 Areas: Few BURS, lots of URs The logical step for Limbo (Paragon area) is then: *Few XRs ( though moderately more than what we have now), lots of BURs (ie: noticeable increase compared to other Level 60 areas - doesn't literally need to be 'lots') Right now Limbo feels like a direct trade-off in terms of reward: I can choose between getting lots of BURs/XP/Gold/Tags (Abyss) OR a very slow rate of XRs and a handful of BURs ('Desert loot' is a gross exaggeration, I would call it slightly reduced compared to Elysium/Aboleths; note that the value of those runs lies in their vast amounts of Set Loot). Removing the 'trade-off' vibe would make the run *much* more attractive for long-term play.
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Post by desocupado on Oct 14, 2016 3:16:45 GMT
What if each character got a XUR book (they choose a subby) if they complete pt2 for the first time? Races in particular seem a good reward to make people curious about builds, getting tags and stuff. I think between 3-4 runs for a gear would be more reasonable - maybe doing 1 then 2 could net increased rewards (maybe another full run worths of canopics) - then reset after being completed.
On one side, if you think XUR won't be balanced or healthy, don't make it accessible yet - if it's possible to farm it only for a few, we'll have another "with" and "without" discussion.
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Post by somes on Oct 14, 2016 3:31:49 GMT
What if each character got a XUR book (they choose a subby) if they complete pt2 for the first time? Races in particular seem a good reward to make people curious about builds, getting tags and stuff. I think between 3-4 runs for a gear would be more reasonable - maybe doing 1 then 2 could net increased rewards (maybe another full run worths of canopics) - then reset after being completed. On one side, if you think XUR won't be balanced or healthy, don't make it accessible yet - if it's possible to farm it only for a few, we'll have another "with" and "without" discussion. I don't know about Elder Evils, but just seeing it from the dev's point of view, it would be better to save a guaranteed XUR race for an elder evils run (the same way Abo has a guaranteed BUR race, but it's a run for experienced players past 40).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2016 3:41:47 GMT
I still think that XR rates should be increased, as mentioned in the original post. But increasing other rewards (gold/XP mentioned in the OP + BURs discussed now) reduces the 'trade-off' factor I mentioned above which is indeed a very unattractive part of playing Limbo full-time.
Free XR races are not a good idea because they greatly reduce the value of the actual books. But a good modification might be something like: "Characters that have beaten P2 (Hard) are considered XR-tier for the purposes of reincarnation"
This serves a dual purpose of 1) increasing incentive for Hard Mode, and 2) addressing the impracticality of reincarnating into XR races - most players who are able to acquire XR books have absolutely no intention of making new toons from scratch (the time investment to achieve Level 80/x7 Demi/x5 Prince wins is gigantic), but acquiring 2 copies of the *same* book is absurdly difficult.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Oct 15, 2016 1:29:35 GMT
Free XR races are not a good idea because they greatly reduce the value of the actual books. But a good modification might be something like: "Characters that have beaten P2 (Hard) are considered XR-tier for the purposes of reincarnation" This serves a dual purpose of 1) increasing incentive for Hard Mode, and 2) addressing the impracticality of reincarnating into XR races - most players who are able to acquire XR books have absolutely no intention of making new toons from scratch (the time investment to achieve Level 80/x7 Demi/x5 Prince wins is gigantic), but acquiring 2 copies of the *same* book is absurdly difficult. Interesting thought, and not hard to code. I'll look over the rest of this thread and see what looks doable. Limbo is about due for some tweaking, I think, and my schedule should allow an update. Funky
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2016 6:57:39 GMT
Another random idea: In the same way that Elysium drops a set UR augmenter at the end of the run, perhaps this could be extended or even improved upon for Limbo (an example improvement would be to only add UR augs with current aug-shop values > 2 billion, to filter out the low power ones). Not a *major* game-changer, just an additional carrot on top of any other buffs.
[Edit: Changed from BUR book -> UR aug]
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Post by desocupado on Oct 16, 2016 9:39:23 GMT
Another random idea: Abo2 (and also parts of the Abyss I *think*?) were given guaranteed BUR subrace drops in the last patch; perhaps this could be extended to, or even increased, for Limbo? Unlikely to be a real game-changer since Limbo players mostly have BUR subraces already, but they're good trade-bait and it would be an additional minor carrot on top of the other buffs. I'd go a different way 1 killing asmodeus make you eligible for bur subrace upgrade and resets your reincarnation timer if you aren't using a bur subrace. 2 each layer of hells has a 1.5% chance for each player times the layer depth chance to drop a bur subrace I.e. phleg has 6% times party size about 42% with seven people while a full nessus gets 135% (some chance for two books) 3 killing the immortal make you eligible for ur subrace upgrade and resets your timer if you aren't using An ur subrace.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2016 9:44:42 GMT
Ah I had just edited this to change the idea to something a little more useful than raw trade-bait, after discussion with some other players.
The whole point of having guaranteed BUR subrace drops in Abyss/Aboleths is to provide incentive to NOT grind Hell over and over again like 95% of the population choose to do, so I'm against significantly upping BUR subrace drops there. The only instance I might budge on that would be to add one guaranteed BUR subrace to Cania (ie: drops from Mephistopheles) since that run is by far the least rewarding and everyone hates doing it. Linking Immortal/Asmodeus defeat to reincarnation timers is perhaps an interesting idea, but (like the Hell rewards discussion) doesn't belong in this thread since this is focused on Limbo buffs; worth its own thread if you would like to flesh it out more to avoid any further derail.
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Post by desocupado on Oct 16, 2016 9:57:17 GMT
... provide incentive to NOT grind Hell over and over again like 95% of the population choose to do, so I'm against significantly upping BUR subrace drops there. Sort of hard between that place being the first place with slot worth sets and having a demigodhood x5 tag chain. The only instance I might budge on would be to add one guaranteed BUR subrace to Cania (ie: drops from Mephistopheles) since that run is by far the least rewarding and everyone hates doing it. Sounds good. My example formula could be applied to stygia+ layers Linking Immortal/Asmodeus defeat to reincarnation timers is perhaps an interesting idea, but (like the Hell rewards discussion) doesn't belong in this thread since this is focused on Limbo buffs; worth its own thread if you would like to flesh it out more (to avoid any further derail). Agreed let's not further derail - I'll start a topic - "On subrace drops, upgrade and run incentives"
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Post by woqued on Mar 3, 2017 2:34:14 GMT
Secret bump: the guaranteed misc item box at end of pt1 could contain a guaranteed biorejuvenator
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Post by fallenwizard on Mar 3, 2017 4:05:45 GMT
Secret bump: the guaranteed misc item box at end of pt1 could contain a guaranteed biorejuvenator But p2 hard only costed 1-7 bio's without ground rest.. why should p1 make p2 smoother? Oh wait.. p2 could have ring charger after mini..
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