|
Post by desocupado on Oct 11, 2016 14:49:46 GMT
One other thought -why exactly does reading a subrace book need to wait until 50? Is there some sort of penalty for that, like a paying your dues thing? I have a bunch of thri-keen subrace books, just curious what the logic is behind not being able to reincarnate my open sub cleric to something better? I can't say for sure but it probably went like this: The old level cap was 40, then it got increased to 60. The UR - Ultra Rare - were probably created after the change level cap (I'm guessing, I wasn't around) - it represented a big achievement back them - thus it required some dedication to be unlocked. In actuality there is another subrace tier - secret - mostly gotten from the lowest level LL run - Dachy (the actual name is tomb of shadows or something). Then, afterwards we got the BUR subraces and now we have another tier on limbo. I say it would be good to remove some requirement from the lower level content.
|
|
|
Post by condude on Oct 11, 2016 15:50:10 GMT
It had to do with vets giving new players (including bot accounts) BUR subby books at level 1, which was, obviously, not great for the challenge aspect of the server.
|
|
|
Post by chainlink on Oct 11, 2016 17:33:38 GMT
You can reincarnate it into Thri-Kreen you just need to get to level 50 use the book so it is tagged to the account and then use a second when you reincarnate it, its in the wiki.
|
|
|
Post by chirality on Oct 11, 2016 17:47:14 GMT
it was done cuz reasons. There was a lot of vets that were super salty about BUR races losing value due to being "too common" and being super salty about new players having BURs, and forums was full of whining about it, so steps had to be taken in attempt to placate/retain older players and keep interest/better retain newer players. You can search and find the threads. supposedly new players were losing interest cuz attaining better subraces was 2 ez. but afaik the change never had any demonstrable positive impact, other than to stop the whining (and then people whined about how rare BUR subraces became, yep >>That Just Happened). here's a post from one of the old head developers: Level caps do little to nothing to address value degradation. Level 60 occurs frequently and quickly and wont really change the value of the books much at all. Level caps help to alleviate the problem where a brand new player has a bur race. This is a cure for a problem which is real, but only observable when BUR books are not valuable.
|
|
|
Post by desocupado on Oct 11, 2016 18:24:32 GMT
I see, then my guess work was wrong.
How did this whole get two subrace books system come? (It really hinder newer players experience) Was it due the abundance of BUR subrace books? (I know BUR subraces used to drop from desert) I find the whole extra book to upgrade on reincarnation really too costly (now that the supply of books has decreased)
|
|
|
Post by rainbowdash on Oct 11, 2016 18:38:09 GMT
I think it's the opposit.
If people advance to fast they'll loose interest (atleast it's that way with me). But upgrading a toon with something like a BUR subrace is something to look forward too. Same with the rare weapon for low levels. Or pandects in min or cleric armor in ely. Stuff in Abo. Sure it is hard to get but thats the appeal of getting it. Have something that not everybody else has, that is rare and not just in the "category" rare.
I know it can be frustrating to see a high level toon plow through maps you can only wish to kill something in. But it's not that subraces or special gear is mandantory for that. Smart play or a well organzied party can yield just as much as a maxed out toon.
I do not like all this drop chances must be increased and endgame must be made viable for newer players. I think players who want to play the endgame have very much the chance to do so they just need to have the right approach.
People like Sky or Umlepotoes (I think i spelled the name wrong) joined the server and ran hells/abyss in no time just because they put their mind to it. Funny thing is Sky left HG because he said he "beat every challenge at HG".
Just a couple of weeks ago I got the armor from Ely after playing here for several years and it was a very good feeling winning it in the lootsplit, same as I got my first immo, demi, Bur-subby-toon, etc. I think you rob every player of these feeling if you trivialise them by making to easy.
Well atleast that's my approach to the game.
Dash
|
|
|
Post by desocupado on Oct 11, 2016 19:46:55 GMT
I think it's the opposit. If people advance to fast they'll loose interest (atleast it's that way with me). But upgrading a toon with something like a BUR subrace is something to look forward too. Same with the rare weapon for low levels. Or pandects in min or cleric armor in ely. Stuff in Abo. Sure it is hard to get but thats the appeal of getting it. Have something that not everybody else has, that is rare and not just in the "category" rare. People would be looking forward the future if the subrace book dropped in desert and required level 60 (could be account bound) - "When I reach that milestone I'll be able to become stronger" - This is the whole purpose of the game design where you drop something the player can't use yet or with his class, make him want to play more - If low level power was really a concern at those areasmake the whole subrace and reincarnation system work differently - You can only choose a secret/UR/BUR/XUR subrace if you reincarnate a character of the adequate level. I know it can be frustrating to see a high level toon plow through maps you can only wish to kill something in. But it's not that subraces or special gear is mandantory for that. Smart play or a well organzied party can yield just as much as a maxed out toon. Power always makes more possible - if the efficient party low level party could do it at a reasonable speed - a couple of high power character can do it faster/safer. I think that the high level person should have no incentive to plow the low level content (denying the appropriate level people the opportunity to experience that content) and the low level content should be more appropriate challenge to the people in it's level range. People aren't having fun while being dragged, they do so because they want to more power faster. Also a highly efficient party has more people splitting the loot. Gear is mandatory for several runs - like implosion immunity or water breathing or breach/mord imm or XXXX. Or even disease/death/negative level in the catacombs. Power like DC and SP is required to kill things. For instance I was playing a new shifter I have in Phleg (not so new I'd say) - he's bur, 60+, got wisdom artifact, and I tried to kill an osy that was left alive on the map after the boss died, the target needed to roll like 1-3 on his save to die - now remove 3 dc from my character and he's useless - now a curse song (-3) could turn it into a bad, but bearable 1-6 range - the open subrace character would be still stuck at 1-2 - if you put a serious cleric debuff (-7/-8) the open shifter would have 1-6 and my character wold be above 50% success. Same happens with most tanks without a Buffed DB weapon there. I do not like all this drop chances must be increased and endgame must be made viable for newer players. I think players who want to play the endgame have very much the chance to do so they just need to have the right approach. I think it should because the end game is where everyone should be together not the early game. It's quite common to make earlier content faster when you release a new end content. People like Sky or Umlepotoes (I think i spelled the name wrong) joined the server and ran hells/abyss in no time just because they put their mind to it. Funny thing is Sky left HG because he said he "beat every challenge at HG". Is he wrong? Should we deny the possibility of him feeling satisfied with his character? Well I suppose he didn't beat limbo and probably didn't do the whole 5 abyss cycles thing - but the last one wasn't a challenge was a grind. Just a couple of weeks ago I got the armor from Ely after playing here for several years and it was a very good feeling winning it in the lootsplit, same as I got my first immo, demi, Bur-subby-toon, etc. I think you rob every player of these feeling if you trivialise them by making to easy. In a different direction I would say that drop rates must be increase in non end game areas because what drops there is obsolete (and going to become scarse) and higher power people shouldn't be farming them (or having to waste time farming there).
|
|
|
Post by dante2377 on Oct 11, 2016 21:21:34 GMT
Let's not talk endgame (which for me in my one month here, I consider Hell and beyond, 55+ content), let's talk mid-game (40 and immo and the next phase). I've seen far more servers lose players who have played enough to know the server, but not enough to call it home, because they get hit in the face with a step difficulty increase and/or find out what they've done isn't viable, than the other way around.
What I've noticed isn't that you just take it slow and steady, slowly gathering your character's power to try new things and go to new areas. You slowly gather your power, then BAM. you hit a cliff and you need more powerful vets to drag you along. For example, when I got my first immortal last night, there were 5 other vets there. 2 were tanks with I'm guessing buffed db weapons since they had to shackle. If it was up to a bunch of first timers, it would have been a slog (as it was, we lost a man, even with all our vet-i-ness). All 5 of them pretty much said "yah, we basically got our first guy dragged too. That's just how it goes. Now that you have a LL PC, you can start farming Feywilds and other runs for loot". Is the intent for Immortal to be doable mostly with shackled or non-first time characters and those are expected to require help?
Also from what I gather, the higher runs all have area/monster specific kickback and AOE damage that you need to protect against, but the 90%+ rings don't drop until those same quests. So again, if you've done them a bunch, etc. Or maybe I'm mis-interpreting what I've been hearing.
Lol, that sounds like real life - rich people thinking they know what's best for poor to get off welfare, when they've never actually asked poor people what would actually help. (I know you were just summarizing, not stating that). Again, i was asking more about the UR than the BUR. You want to have something to strive for, but when faced with that giant difficulty wall, the extra feat or couple points of DC on a caster from a UR makes a big difference on a second PC or reincarnate a first PC before 50 or 60; again, not to make it easy, but to make it a bit more doable and useful. Like, if I was able to get and use a Stargazer book at 40 or even start a 2nd PC with it, that the extra 2 WIS would destroy the server balance?
Hmm...this is heading into a grumpy, Lazar territory. So it's not just "hey this BUR is valuable because it helps my character survive and thrive better" intrinsic value, but that part of its value is also comparative "hey this BUR is valuable because it helps my character survive and thrive better AND I HAVE IT AND YOU DON'T". Hmmm...
Just so I'm clear - if you get a BUR book and tag your account to it (assuming you have a PC at the right level), any new level 1 you create can use that subrace right? You don't need more books to make them?
Dante
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2016 21:51:43 GMT
What I've noticed isn't that you just take it slow and steady, slowly gathering your character's power to try new things and go to new areas. You slowly gather your power, then BAM. you hit a cliff and you need more powerful vets to drag you along. Unfortunately, yes. This is a vestigial aspect of the server; in the past, these early-LL areas used to be the 'endgame' and were designed to be challenging for large parties. From my current Solo -HC- playthrough I can certainly confirm that the early LL runs are insanely difficult for a group of Level ~40's wearing the gear they found on the 1-40 trip. The natural solution today is to trade/give fresh Level 40's a bunch of half-decent gear (Rare/UR) which results in a large power boost. The fact that there are no level caps makes gathering XP vastly more efficient when a high-level caster just blitzes through the run. I'm not saying it's ideal, but that's just how it is for now. HG is tremendously under-staffed and under-powered in terms of developer availability (consisting primarily of two very busy volunteers), so change in this area is not going to happen quickly. As for the books, I'm not really sure why Level 50 was chosen for UR books instead of Level 40, but again it's unfortunately just a situation that exists. If it were up to me, I would probably set restrictions of Level 40 for UR and Level 60 for BUR books, and also lighten the 'second copy of the SAME book being consumed on reincarnation' to 'ANY book from the same tier being consumed on reincarnation'. Note that in many cases the XP gap between Levels 40 and 50 takes ~4 hours of being dragged through runs so while it may not be the most fun thing you've done, at least it won't take too long. Just so I'm clear - if you get a BUR book and tag your account to it (assuming you have a PC at the right level), any new level 1 you create can use that subrace right? You don't need more books to make them? Correct.
|
|
|
Post by dante2377 on Oct 11, 2016 22:02:54 GMT
That's understandable (low dev resources), got it.
|
|
|
Post by fundrun on Oct 11, 2016 22:24:29 GMT
This got way larger than expected. Sorry for the wall of text!
Disclaimer: This is the opinion formed by someone who has reached level 52~ and done a number of immo runs. I have not entered hells or beyond, or some higher end LL runs, and I have never experienced an LL run as "intended".
Even with Epic Evo and Epic Spell Pen, and prayer and battletide, it usually takes 2-3 implosions to land a single instant kill in an area where you cannot rest for most of the run at a point in time where you have ~18 spell slots if you were given decent gear by veterans. Alternatively you can get a giant pack of mobs, provided you have the means to tank it (If you wern't fed gear by veterans, you won't) and Earthquake them down, but then you need to rest every 1-2 pulls. Now if you do this run with a druid, all these problems dissapear and instant kill spells suddenly wreck the area. This obviously makes sense given the high point of the server (needed to form the right composition) but in the current age when I have yet to see a Druid not played as a multi-boxed character, it seems very strange. The issue with how this game handles Spell Resistance is too polarizing. You either end up with casters being useless or incredibly overpowered. Pets and Weapon Buffs help offset this but these are passive damage sources, not really that interactive (And one requires party play which is already an issue) and this digs into issues with Melee as well. I'm fine with the argument being made for areas to have some sections where melee shine, and some sections where casters shine, but I just don't see this executed well especially when means of progression are blocked by mechanics like this (See MoC, Hel, Lv. 40 Dragons). Obviously, a lot of these issues are a byproduct of the game being designed for group play, and the easiest solution is to tweak the older content to be more approachable for new players but I feel like that sacrifices the vision of the server so it isn't a good solution. I would argue it makes more sense to spread out the utility to other classes. Ways for melee classes to "break through" spell immunity shields (which is another topic I have problems with) for casters, or ways for melee to synergize with spells to create new effects (Likely outside of the scope of this engine) are a few ideas I can think of to help here. The entire module revolving around "Do you have a Druid for SR debuffing?" is one of the biggest issues this server has IMO. This kind of mechanic is what creates the monopoly the core classes currently have and it forces content to be designed in this kind of manner where it's either near impossible or <insert intended difficulty here>. This type of design philosophy works out much better when your minimum thresholds can be additive instead of exclusive. For example, the way it currently works is: Druid: -13/14 SR in an AE Bard: Persuade maybe? And that's it. You have some fallbacks like Mord or Curse, but those get more and more useless as the need to increase difficulty becomes more apparent. It would be more interesting if something like this could be done: Druid: -3/4 SR in an AE Wizard: Mord Immunity to spell levels off Target temporarily when targeted and decrease SR to Fire/Acid/Ice/Electric/Sonic by 5 in an area when AE'ed. Bard: -2/3 SR in an AE, -5 SR to Sonic. Paladin: -5 SR in an AE for Positive and Divine Elemental Spells BlackGuard: -5 SR in an AE for Negative and Divine Elemental Spells Assassin: Poisons now decrease SR vs Acid by 1 per hit and reduce Acid immunity cap by 3%, to a max of -10 SR and a maximum of 70% Acid Immunity on the target. Stacks last 5 seconds unless refreshed Staffmaster/AA/DS: Attacks now decrease SR by .5% and Immunity by 1.5% for chosen element type, to a max of -5 SR and -15% immunity. Stacks last 5 seconds unless refreshed. Weapon Master: Different Styles can be chosen that add (WM Level/20)d3 damage to each attack of Slashing, Bludgeon, or Piercing. These attacks reduce immunity to that damage type by 1% per hit to a maximum of -25% immunity. This effect is also added to Blades/Tentacles/whatever (and their damage can be lowered to adjust for this) All these effects could stack to some kind of maximum, and this is just exploring SR and immunity. This mechanic could be expanded to literally any stat. I like to pick on Druids because they are the only class with access to such a powerful AE SR debuff AND an immunity group buff, both are seemingly required for any group to function in runs past 35 without being fed gear or dragged by a higher level player. I love what this server does with elemental effects but I don't feel it has been at all explored to it's fullest potential. The monopoly on Cores utility needs to end before progress can be made to fixing any of these problems because of how easy it is to tip the scale in one direction or another currently.
|
|
|
Post by chirality on Oct 11, 2016 23:29:57 GMT
All 5 of them pretty much said "yah, we basically got our first guy dragged too. That's just how it goes. That's a choice, not anything the module forces upon a player. If that's how it goes, it's because offers to drag were made and agreed. It's not the only way to do things. The oldest players did do things the hard way, but each successive mini-generation of players gets more drag and less work, as older players get richer and more powerful and the newbies of yesteryear become the vets of today. Work vs drag gets diluted just like a gene pool, so when a newbie got 20/80 drag/work and became a vet and more capable of helping another newbie, that newbie might have gotten 40/60 drag/work, and so on, until you end up with 5 vets thinking that the normal course of progression across the game is to get dragged until your toon is more powerful than appropriate for the given area and don't bother trying it any earlier. Of course, it also doesn't help that new players are recommended to play things like tanks that necessitate being dragged, so again after a few generations of dilution, you end up with a vet that got dragged cuz he played a tank and couldn't do anything by himself, so of course it's only natural for him to drag a new player that was told to play a tank since unfortunately for most players, one thing that HG places a premium on is time investment, and does take a long time to learn. Now that you have a LL PC, you can start farming Feywilds and other runs for loot". Eh, skip Fey and try working out a strategy/comfort zone for some other runs instead. You're better off farming a run with desirable set drops that are of use to your own toons or for trade to others (like portable hole from toyshop). Is the intent for Immortal to be doable mostly with shackled or non-first time characters and those are expected to require help? No, and it's not. The choice to get dragged through immo or anywhere else is just that: a choice. Most vets like to shackle and help, just like they offer to use high-level toons to drag lowbies through runs. Once PLs were implemented, players had a huge incentive to prioritize playing high-level toons (to grind XP towards 80), and less incentive to spend their playtime doing runs with level-appropriate toons (and of course, there's also the problem that until Limbo was released, L55-60 was the level-appropriate range for every run in the game). Most players like taking newer players on runs that they'd be doing anyway on high-level toons (for xp and loot), rather than playing a low-level toon that's of the proper range for both the new player's toon and the run in question. I don't think immortality is intended to require the help of veteran toons, but shackling is an option that exists for the purpose of allowing people to help on runs like immortality with higher-level toons, as opposed to having the options of a) don't help at all or b) make a new toon expressly for helping another toon at a given level. Afaik from watching Webdash, even in the last year+ there's been plenty of immo runs that either didn't have a single shackled toon or had enough fresh 40s that if a shackled toon(s) came along it was more of a "help"/"give that player something to do while hanging out with his friends" than enabling the run. As for LL runs in the sissy>hells cycle past immortality (in which there's zero incentive to use a level-approriate toon, except more XP for the lowbie--easily made up by more drags), the situation is definitely the opposite: it's rare or impossible to provide an example of a run of the hells progression cycle that didn't involve being dragged/enabled/insured by toons far more powerful than the run called for. Does that mean the game itself demanded that? Absolutely not; it means that people are interested in progressing and having fun, preferably as fast and easy as possible, and it means that people generally like to help others out as much as possible. Also from what I gather, the higher runs all have area/monster specific kickback and AOE damage that you need to protect against, but the 90%+ rings don't drop until those same quests. So again, if you've done them a bunch, etc. Or maybe I'm mis-interpreting what I've been hearing. Not sure what 90% rings refers to; there's actually lowbie (L40) rings providing 90% imm to a single ele type that drop in lowbie zones, but I imagine that's not what you were told about. Random rings are usually found randomized and rares provide x2 types, URs 3, and BURs are basically URs with much higher base imm%s on some types and additional imm types of lowert imm%. Kickback is common across LL runs, and AoE damage frequent as well, but if you were told that you need gear from run X to complete run X, it was probably more of an exaggeration or misunderstanding (like it makes it easier, not required, or I hope anyway that's what they told you); before BURs existed players completed those runs with URs, which can easily be found in any L40+ area. Lol, that sounds like real life - rich people thinking they know what's best for poor to get off welfare, when they've never actually asked poor people what would actually help. (I know you were just summarizing, not stating that). Again, i was asking more about the UR than the BUR. You want to have something to strive for, but when faced with that giant difficulty wall, the extra feat or couple points of DC on a caster from a UR makes a big difference on a second PC or reincarnate a first PC before 50 or 60; again, not to make it easy, but to make it a bit more doable and useful. Like, if I was able to get and use a Stargazer book at 40 or even start a 2nd PC with it, that the extra 2 WIS would destroy the server balance? The funny part is that 99% of those players have been inactive for years. The other funny part is that 99% of those are also the ones who supposedly were going to come back once limbo dropped. Hmm...this is heading into a grumpy, Lazar territory. So it's not just "hey this BUR is valuable because it helps my character survive and thrive better" intrinsic value, but that part of its value is also comparative "hey this BUR is valuable because it helps my character survive and thrive better AND I HAVE IT AND YOU DON'T". Hmmm... Well, to be clear, the guy I quoted was speaking in terms of economy and market forces, making an objective analysis on the change itself. It's not like he was saying "this was a good change because people got these too easily and I didn't want them to have them"; in fact I think it was more like "this didn't really do anything". People wanted newbies to feel challenged and there was some very public examples of new players that "beat the game" "too fast" or lost interest too fast because vets gave them stuff they "never earned" or never learned to appreciate; and some of the oldest players were upset that subraces they had worked so hard and long for "back in their day" were given out like candy to fresh newbies; and in general there was a feeling of resentment/stress for the future/uncertainty that the model was sustainable. I don't think anything even remotely approaching "lazar"-style competion/jealousy was part of the decision-making process, nor the public outcries for change, but it is true that there was disgruntled players who were unhappy about the perceived (or actual) cheapening of what were, at one time, some of the most sought-after rewards any player could hope to strive for. I think this was less about selfishness/not wanting people to have them than it was about "here's newbies AB and C who quit after X short time after Y player gave them Z item, what can we do to combat this trend". Like I said, I don't think any proof was ever provided that anything even remotely positive came out of the change, since BUR subrace economy issue was always more about desirability and rarity of SOME races in relation to others, not about BURs in general being too accessible. In the end, you can't even please half the people half the time, so administration made what they thought was the right choice; I don't think it was really harmful for races to require a given level to read, but I think there's no question that the issue of "newbies getting BURs too fast" was never relevant or important enough to merit attention in the first place, and unfortunately all the time spent debating and implementing this change could have been far better spent on actually improving the game itself, much like dozens of other issues (like summons or -HC- anti exploits for instance).
|
|
|
Post by desocupado on Oct 11, 2016 23:44:05 GMT
------On SR ------------ Spell Resistance is like AC while the DC is akin to the "damage" a spell does. So "hitting" with right "damage" is a successful spell usage. Actually the whole SR can be bypassed by a couple of spells Mord - Arcane 9 Breach/Dispell spells (not very effective) - Arcane Bard (several) Bestow Curse - Arcane Bard Cleric (3) Nature Balance - Druid 8
Actually NB can get to 17 with CL 60 and PSF Transmutation... And the druid's epic abjuration spell gets to 26 with paragon abjuration focus O.O
----Specific SR debuffs---- I'm not sure if spell resistance can be tweaked against some types of spell descriptors - since no effect in game does that I'd assume it cannot.
Edit: I cannot post the rest of the reply
|
|
|
Post by dopplegang on Oct 11, 2016 23:57:23 GMT
Given my year or so of playing this server, I have come to understand that this server has a party based philosophy. Luckily, they don't force recruitment like some of the MMORPG I have so many complaints about, pay to win etc. I agree there are several areas where the pre-LL content could be improved, most notably in the cost of shop items(for a new toon, 2 million for the next weapon?, the uselessness of such items, the low availability of better than shop items, weapons dropping that are completely irrelevant to you, weapons not dropping very often, etc.
Tangent: Maybe if there was a forge in town or some random place, that you could take a lvl 1-40 weapon and have it melted and crafted into another weapon type of your selection, the level 17 assassin dagger you will never use(your a troll) being made into the level 17 merc greatsword you always wanted. That way you could take what you have farmed, and make it useful to whomever you have that needs a weapon of that level. Considering that you will surpass that level rather quickly anyway and move on, its more of a luxury, possibly the crafting items could be used as a cost for this process. Since I have collected crafting items for 1 year now and have never used a single crafting item that wasn't a gem, they are useless to anyone below lvl 40 currently, which is also evidenced by the difficulty in finding the forge or the forge portal item.
Of course all of this falls back on the simple fact that this is a party server. MOC is doable in 30 seconds with an arcane and a tank, so is asimathas and razhid and bloodpool and lithy and pinky, all are doable in a short amount of time, even as a new player with shop gear, if you have friends(bots are people too).
Try to remember Dante, your a level headed guy but your playing a cleric, trying to solo a party server(for lack of friends yet). You will not find that an easy challenge. Initial observations from new eyes are very welcome and very helpful, but making changes based on one month of observations should be frowned upon. Either way, discussions are always good to have, and honestly you are only saying what others have commented on previously. The content for preLL is very good, well laid out, challenging, but definitely doable, more comfortable now that previously(haste pots used to be unuseable until 6 or something, and haste items until 7 or 8), if you make note of what is needed and design toons with an eye to the future needs it will go more smoothly. I have helper toons that are parked at certain levels so that if someone shouts for help at 30 I can join them and help out with a well designed toon to meet the needs of those bosses, equipped with things I find that.
This being a party server, you will be needing multiple toons to coordinate well with what the party's needs will be at any time, if you want to be a good team player at least. That cleric of yours is a great start, but its only the tip of the iceberg, if you had started with a tank, you would find that 1-20 was easy, but after that you would hit the wall. If you had started an arcane, you many never get off the ground at all, but when you did, after 25-ish you would feel like a god, except for the whole "need more spell slots!!!!" problem. Point being, there is always a problem, or we wouldn't need heroes to solve them.
|
|
|
Post by chirality on Oct 12, 2016 0:25:40 GMT
The entire module revolving around "Do you have a Druid for SR debuffing?" is one of the biggest issues this server has IMO. This kind of mechanic is what creates the monopoly the core classes currently have and it forces content to be designed in this kind of manner where it's either near impossible or <insert intended difficulty here>. The entire module doesn't revolve around that; you should try thinking outside the box and prolly ignore most of what you've been told PLs made druids less required by offering a critical +2 SP to casters. There is not a single run on the server that revolves around a druid; of course extreme SRs in some zones or on some mobs makes NB really useful, but it's a fact that any run can be accomplished without a druid and PLs only made any given class LESS "required" and made ALL classes MORE useful (like tanks; I see you're another caster v tank guy). This module revolves around learning. It's true that cores are OP (that's what makes them cores), but on the bright side, there's only four of them, with shifter being a flexible 5th, and hey on the bright side, any run is doable with only 1-2 of them honestly, expecting people to have 2 or 3 out of five OP classes in a party of 10 to have an ez successful run isn't asking too much For example, the way it currently works is: Druid: -13/14 SR in an AE Bard: Persuade maybe? And that's it. Aoe mord is your friend, and use BC for the high-SR single mobs You have some fallbacks like Mord or Curse Calling something a fallback is a great way to trivialize it by assigning minimal value and making it seem inconsequential. If you imagine the glass half-full, it's more like these are options, not restrictions. I like to pick on Druids because they are the only class with access to such a powerful AE SR debuff AND an immunity group buff, both are seemingly required for any group to function in runs past 35 without being fed gear or dragged by a higher level player. It might seem like that, but it's not so bad as people might have you believe, I promise
|
|