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Post by Enius the White on Oct 12, 2016 4:50:14 GMT
In a nutshell, fundrun, I think you are right on the mark. Level 40-55 is a rough grind the first time around. Sabre offers some great advice, and iirc, Feywind was also brought in specifically to ameliorate the early part of this level progression a bit. Very little great loot there, but the balance is reasonable for a newer immo. Fwiw, the road to the endgame may be longer than ever, but the first steps into the LLs has always been a trial by fire, if you ventured them without an experienced party to guide you. My first toon was a fail of a battle cleric, and I was eager to level, as the hells were rumored to drop soon. I played with a couple of friends, also new to HG and, as you point out, the learning curve at 40 was steep. Our first Dusty win involved 2.5 solid inventory pages of heal pot stacks (in fairness, I think the stacks were less than 50 back then) each, lots of those EQs that you mentioned, and 2.5 hours of kick-back-alooza... The bridge in Sissy... don't get me started...  Anyway, if you like the independent route (and I get that), then the auction/trade chests on 111 may be a nice resource at that level. If you autosell lots of junk loot as you adventure (I know, EQ and loot are not a good mix), you'll have enough cash to buy some decent gear, piece by piece. Trade shouts are good as well. You don't need portable holes, or loads of cash to buy some URs (UR rings have the exotics). Once you get to 55, and your workshop tag, the world opens right up. You can buy cheap augs there to patch your gear immunity setup. And you can experience that little world of hurt called Hades, where URs and BURs drop, solo, or with a very small group. Looking back, I can offer this advice: Don't rush. It's a game, and it really is all about the journey. Trying to figure out how to progress through seemingly impossibly abusive sections can be cringe-worthy, painful, frustrating and sometimes... ultimately... downright cathartic.  Embrace those moments, laugh through the rest, and recognize that the road is one way. So enjoy the view, because there's really no going back, as you head off into the next, more powerful levels of the game. |
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Post by desocupado on Oct 12, 2016 5:19:14 GMT
Fwiw, the road to the endgame may be longer than ever, but the first steps into the LLs has always been a trial by fire, if you ventured them without an experienced party to guide you. My first toon was a fail of a battle cleric, and I was eager to level, as the hells were rumored to drop soon. I played with a couple of friends, also new to HG and, as you point out, the learning curve at 40 was steep. Our first Dusty win involved 2.5 solid inventory pages of heal pot stacks (in fairness, I think the stacks were less than 50 back then) each, lots of those EQs that you mentioned, and 2.5 hours of kick-back-alooza... Well I had a pretty easy time as lifethreader and staffmaster against him (open subrace) There's also a cheese way - it's possible to rest inside his chamber if he's on the opposite side - I've beat him using epic spells this way (a combination of missile barrage and starfire) The bridge in Sissy... don't get me started... against the miniboss just Cast fire wall to create a impassable wall (it's not underwater after all) and use druid's storm tower to handle the archers. Anyway, if you like the independent route (and I get that), then the auction/trade chests on 111 may be a nice resource at that level. If you autosell lots of junk loot as you adventure (I know, EQ and loot are not a good mix), you'll have enough cash to buy some decent gear, piece by piece. Trade shouts are good as well. You don't need portable holes, or loads of cash to buy some URs (UR rings have the exotics). Portable hole is something vets tend to always need it drops on toyshop run i done at a low level (54 - it's possible to shackle at roman's priest). |
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Post by somes on Oct 12, 2016 6:55:19 GMT
I'd like to chime in here a bit. I did a from scratch playthrough on a new alt account not long ago. The biggest issue I had in the transition from immortality to legendary runs. The big problem was gear. I was able to use my knowledge to help this a bit but the average new player, is I'm betting, pretty lost. If you don't want to be dragged, there are plenty of areas out there that are level appropriate. Part of the problem is the newer LL areas are actually a lot tougher than the old ones. So the stated level ranges are more for people who've played LL a bunch of times and have a lot of gear. So I can give you specific advice - one being stick to the old areas at first. Which are those? 1. Deepbats - Ultra rares can spawn here and the mobs are easy. Especially if you're playing a tank, farm as much gear as you can. 2. The Maze - Ultra rares can also spawn here. Dachy (the dragon) is rough unless you have a good weapon or buffs with exotic damage. It's certainly doable by a lowish level tank with decent HP and negative potions. Best classes are paladin and blackguard. Easier thing can be to just wander the maze and beat up guardians. Ladders go up, holes go down and if you hit enough glowing yellow portals you'll end up back at start. 3. The desert - It's a bit mean in parts but it is no fugue. Unfortunately very hard for a tank to solo unless you're an assassin or super high damage. There are some almost decentish set drops you can use when just starting off. 4. Ssith is old but super nasty. You'll really want specific types of gear - elec/cold rings and implosion immune to make it easy enough to farm. Places that are really rough are the newer LL areas - Uroboros, PoM, Locathah, Hive, Myco, Dulvuroth - these are pretty much dragville for a new player imo. Myconids less than the others but still pretty nasty. I joined one on my test playthrough and it was pretty rough as I was with another new player. We eventually pulled it off but it took a lot of work. #1 and #2 are small scale ways to make progress even if you're soloing with few people around. You certainly do not need a druid on every LL run. You don't even have to have one on every hell run. There are alternative ways of doing lots of runs but they are tricky. LL runs don't even take a lot of people if you're careful. Among my favorite HG experiences was doing Illithids with 3 people at level appropriate - lvl 50ish. Scary but if done right, just beautiful. Keeping level ranges close in LL already gives you a bonus to xp. Dragging can still be pretty efficient simply because of speed. But you don't have to go that way if you don't want to. Back when I was a newbie it wasn't really an option as there were even fewer players than now and people were super cliquish. So we played with a very small group - sometimes just Ty and I and figured out LL runs as best we could. I highly recommend that experience it was a blast. -S This was why I made a small party of bots actually, so I could go through the content proper once I got more of an understanding of the game. I've been making heavy use of the desert, so I'm happy to see our experiences line up there. Once I get a few more levels I'm going to give Dachy a try, and a lot of my frustration comes from Ssith. I love the run but it is very nasty, even for level appropriate characters as you have stated. I also had no idea Deepbats was considered an LL location. I'll keep that in mind as well. Thank you for this information, something like this on a wiki about "Preparing for LL" would have saved a lot of headache although I'm personally not a fan of having to rely on wiki for direction, as I like figuring things out myself as well, but at a certain point I give in for the sake of progress. An important thing to note, if your complaints come from Sssithy alone, is that Sssithy was not originally made for 40-45 toons. Sure, people do it around that level with power creep and good gear, but the idea around the run is that you have done a few Dachy runs for rings, and you would be around level 45 or higher by then to be able to complete it. It was also made around the idea that drow/dachy trained you on using BBoDs, positioning, and having a large party and be able to use creative methods to overcome the challenges. I've often had new players get really frustrated with Sssithy, but I have to remind them multiple times that it is not meant for toons fresh off Immo lol. |
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Post by chainlink on Oct 12, 2016 11:55:16 GMT
The trick to Ssith is use a PM as with critical hit immunity and excessive death magic you can instakill pretty much everything (except the constructs) whilst taking minimal KB damage and avoiding the unpleasant damage output of the halberd wielding critters.
With Death of Magic and Starfire Epic spells you can also disable the casters for a period of time whilst you lay the smack on them.
You can of course do this with a Wizard or Sorcerer but PM full crit immunity and increased DC makes you an engine of destruction against the creatures in this area.
It can be better to do this with a smaller/controlled party as people beating on the KB mobs can cause probelms for those without the requisite immunity/resistance.
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Post by sabregirl on Oct 12, 2016 12:04:23 GMT
In a nutshell, fundrun, I think you are right on the mark. Level 40-55 is a rough grind the first time around. Sabre offers some great advice, and iirc, Feywind was also brought in specifically to ameliorate the early part of this level progression a bit. Very little great loot there, but the balance is reasonable for a newer immo. I almost forgot about the feywild (thanks!) which is a great place for a new immo to get their feet wet. You need to talk to a certain halfling NPC in rips once you're immortal to go there. She'll give you a fey knife where you can enter. Closest place is the boat ramp. -S |
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Post by fallenwizard on Oct 12, 2016 12:29:30 GMT
This topic has been interesting read for me.
I'll start my story from when I was new. I didnt read forums or wiki or anything, i had heard of HG's massive server from ppl on other servers, but hadnt chatted much about it. On other servers I had mainly played either a battle cleric (monk/clr) or what i chose as my first char here (what i thought a unkillable wall) bard/pm/dwd. Little did i know... I imagined that crit immunity with dwd physical damage reduction and high hp would give me durability... 1-40 it worked, then at LL's it rapidly hit to me.. i need to have 100% elemental immunity to do the runs, the physical part became obsolent.
Back then, server was at its "prime" 80-100 ppl on weeknight and 150 during weekends, finding people to play with was almost too easy. Back then there was no prell accomplishments, there were tags but they gave you no bonuses, so people just powerlevelled their way to 40.
Quickly i learnt that tanks require far better gear than casters to do well. I've enjoyed casters in pvp servers, but for pve servers they had not proven to be great, here how ever i made one of the cool sounder quasiclasses, bfm - i loved it. I learnt to do all non-underwater areas with it, learnt which items are sought after and what their price is. I spent weeks, if not months farming toyshop for portable holes to trade for subraces and gear pieces when ever i wasnt joining hell runs.
I learnt the runs slowly, sure i had rushed through them in parties, but when returning there alone, all the scripted attacks that i hadnt even noticed were suddenly challenging me. Afterall, i wasnt wearing burs and my ur's were far from optimal, using rare rings to cover elemental immunities etc.
Many things have changed since, for example ability to chain timestop, which i abused a lot, i mean, i couldnt afford getting hit, so chaining timestop perfectly made me "immortal". However, what i learnt back then, i can say that all LL areas can be soloed by lvl appropriate arcane (the ones that dont require 2+ for levers). Aoe mord, epic wall, bbod and gv as combination is just soooo nice. When playing solo, dmg nukes/evards is what you go for instead of trying to instant kill enemies, as many have pointed out, dc wont cut it without save drops.
Thesedays, if i were to recommend a first char to play to a newbie, it'd be without a doubt a loot wizard (39wiz/1rog). Cleric/druid are awesome when you aim for party play, but arcane is always wanted and the solo capabilities it offers to increase your wealth outshines the reduced contribution when progressing to hell and its tags. Wizard because you dont need to know during your levelling which spells to take but rather can learn the runs and spawns and then prep right spells for each area. Sorc does things better once you've learnt mobs and select your limited spells from that. However, sorc for LL runs (to solo them smoothly, level appropriate) requires way different spell selection than any build on forums suggest. Those builds focus on endgame, not for LL play.
Anyways, back to prell, it is true that many 30+ tags are a real pita to solo, especialy if you arent arcane who knows his ways. If it was up to me, i'd simply skip all the tags on any char that isnt bur race, keep in mind, if you end up upgrading your first few chars to burs via reinc, you can then make a "proxy" char for your main to gain the tag bonuses, this time however you'll have bank chests filled with gear/consumables that speeds and eases things a ton. Not to mention that you can use your way overlevelled char to explore the lowbie word and learn what they are weak against etc. I know HG isnt designed for such "meta-gaming" and for those who prefer real dnd experience, it is sort of cheating. But that's my 2cents on that topic.
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Post by madzapper on Oct 12, 2016 14:23:52 GMT
1. Deepbats - Ultra rares can spawn here and the mobs are easy. Especially if you're playing a tank, farm as much gear as you can. Also loot everything along the path to Deepbats going through the drow caves. You can get a surprising amount of $$ and gear that way (for level 40ish toons). And Feywild is decent until about level 50. |
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Post by chainlink on Oct 12, 2016 15:54:21 GMT
Got most of my Preservation Implosion immunity shields from rooting around in the areas near Manatakloss Docks.
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Embrace those moments, laugh through the rest, and recognize that the road is one way. So enjoy the view, because there's really no going back, as you head off into the next, more powerful levels of the game. 
