Pure Caster Bards cannot be helped :(

[desocupado]

Not a recommended - too squishy, unable to do more bard roles and is a weak caster compared to full caster classes

I need some help from the bard's veterans. Here's what I have so far:


Advantage over regular support oriented bards: "Feels like you are actively hindering your foes"

Highlights:

• Maximum SP and DC (spell penetration artifact was chosen due mindfog synergy and "boss mode" burst) and it's cheaper than charisma artifact.
• Damage options: Cry of the heavens, Ice storm, cacophony, shout, monotonous echo, amplify - can play with thunderclaps before demigodhood
  
• Limited Spell choice - Evocation and Enchantment seemed the most useful to make due the sacrifices required for full spell penetration - since Transmutation is more required than necromancy, it was my last school.
• Wield the most essential epics in hells - UUU and HMR - the others seemed less absolutely vital (missing dirge of deathless is sad tough)
  
• Colossal aura potential (currently base Str+Dex = 22 -> needs double demi, +14 and two extra stat points)
• Some instant kills (gust and stone shatter)
• Lots of disable spells (to abuse will-5 song and mindfog) - Sleep, Confusion, Bewildering cloud, slow, warcry (fear),
• Some support spells: Mind fog, bestow curse, amplify, mass haste, iron grasp, joyful noise, remove curse, dirge, improved heroism, full GMW, clang - full level 63 song
• Some tankability - Ethereal Visage and Energy buffer - mediocre saves (you may substitute SP artifact with saves)
  
• Useful skills: Pickpocket and persuade (might be not an optimal choice due lesser defenses)
  

Class breakdown: Bard 40
***Now they can swap feats - ESF in Epic Levels

Human: Radiance Genasi
Str 12 -2
Dex 10+2
Con 10+2
Int 14+2
Wis 08
Cha 18 +6/sub +10/feat +20/level = 54

Saves (60/+12)

Reflex 58
Fort 56
Will 56

Feats

--Heroic = 7 +1/human = 8
1 Artist & Leg Luck
3-18 GSF SP EVOC ENCHANT

--Epic = 7 +6/epic = 13

21 Curse song
8 Cha
3 Epic SP EVOC ENCHANT
1 Lasting impression

-- Legendary = 7 + tome of transmutation

4 Leg SP EVOC ENCHANT TRANS
1 Leg Artist
1 Leg luck of heroes
1 Epic Fort


-- Paragon = 6
2 PSK Enchant (cacophony)
2 CHA
2 PSPen and PSF Evoc



Skill 4 +1/legBard +1/human +3/int

Concentration
Discipline
Lore
Listen
Parry
Perform
Persuade
Pickpocket
Tumble

Spell book

Spell Level	Spell selection
I	Expeditious retreat Joyful Noise Amplify Sleep Silver tongue Sticky finger
II	Deafening clang Silence Endure Elements Clarity Darkness Hold Person
III	GMW Keen edge Slow Confusion Gust of wind Displacement
IV	Hold monster Shout Stone shatter Warcry Neutralize poison Break Enchantment
V	Mind fog Healing circle Lesser mind blank Improved Heroism Ethereal Visage*
VI	Least Spell Mantle Dirge Mass Haste Energy Buffer Ice Storm

I miss remove curse on level 3.
Seems I must use Displacement on level 3 so EV is useless
Iron grasp should replace endure elements on level 2 later.

[Paradoom]

If you plan to never set a foot into the abyss this might work, but even so: bad saves, unfit subrace, misses essential spells like rc, does not have dirge of the deathless.... fail.
This bard would require to have another one in the group that could fill the gaps == this one is a waste of space.

I suggest you look into chaos gnome and start building from there. and if you really want to go pure then you might wanna use a saves arty actually. But I can tell you right away: thanks to the insane changes of poison you will not stand a chance in the front lines.

The main problem is though that bards are so extremely tight on what you must have that you hardly have any room to play around with feats or you pay in lower charisma, which then again leads to lower spell efficiency/uselessness.

If you say you want to make an arcane caster based on bard well then you should max out charisma and go with only enchantment illusion and evocation. But you will never reach the power of a wizard or sorcerer. Esp. since your spells are only level 6 max.

[desocupado]

Actually I thought about dropping silence for iron grasp and confusion (or slow) for remove curse to round up the book for abyss needs. I wanted to do some tests with silence (maybe employing radiance genasi silent spell)

On the role part, well radiance has the best D.C. so I went with that to help on lower dc due spell level. My reasoning for making caster was having a good usage out of warcry (fear) dirge (vulnerability) and mind fog and mind spells. And who knows.. Maybe vocalize will land too...

The poison changes make me wonder about neutralize poison (and gsf). Does it help on blight's poison damage?

[woqued]

Splashing paladin is a lot better than taking 3 save feats, thats dirge for you right there. Drop darkness, sleep, sticky fingers for the abyss req spells and pick up the shadow variant to have access to darkness for Elysium.

That being said I don't think a "caster bard" such as this provides enough to the group to have any point in making; if u reeeeally wanna go high cha "caster bard" i'd opt for dropping evocation; use the ENCH based spells, pick up the dirge of deathless (by leaving save feats out and splash paladin), illusion (leave sf,gsf,esf evocation out), and pick up LSF+PSF Trans with the two left-over lsf-psf evocation feats; passable DC on AoE-BC, has possums + dirge, still has same DC on ench based spells (the useful stuff) and actually does the "hindering foes" job better thanks to the Wail > AoE-BC hitting after nb fairly often and having higher survivability (more conceal, possums, megasaves) + higher epic coverage + hinders them from using their CRIT and Fear abilities against your team.

[desocupado]

Oct 23, 2016 10:38:17 GMT Paradoom said:

If you say you want to make an arcane caster based on bard well then you should max out charisma and go with only enchantment illusion and evocation. But you will never reach the power of a wizard or sorcerer. Esp. since your spells are only level 6 max.

Oct 23, 2016 17:31:43 GMT woqued said:

That being said I don't think a "caster bard" such as this provides enough to the group to have any point in making; if u reeeeally wanna go high cha "caster bard" i'd opt for dropping evocation; use the ENCH based spells, pick up the dirge of deathless (by leaving save feats out and splash paladin), illusion (leave sf,gsf,esf evocation out), and pick up LSF+PSF Trans with the two left-over lsf-psf evocation feats; passable DC on AoE-BC, has possums + dirge, still has same DC on ench based spells (the useful stuff) and actually does the "hindering foes" job better thanks to the Wail > AoE-BC hitting after nb fairly often and having higher survivability (more conceal, possums, megasaves) + higher epic coverage + hinders them from using their CRIT and Fear abilities against your team.

You are right it's a big fail due how little defenses it has and how many essential epic spells it lacks. The 3rd edition spell DC formula doesn't help (spell level for DC really kills it).
While full DC cacophony and Cry of the heavens seems nice in paper, between healing elites and bosses/mobs not taking an appropriate damage type it fails. (Well Bad did nice with it when PSK was released)

I can fail as a sorcerer (without karsus) without failing this much (actually I love my sorcerer although I didn't use it much after RG nerf and some real life stuff).
Or maybe a herald is a better fit if the deal is having some unorthodox damage alongside enchantment spells.