Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2016 7:05:23 GMT
So, Limbo dropped but no one showed. A commonly cited reason was 'lack of information' (which IMO has been mostly addressed by woqued's notes on the Wiki) but apparently this has not been enough. This thread is intended as supplementary spoon-feeding of the most important concepts to understand for success in the area. It is not as broad as woqued's Wiki notes, but instead focuses on explaining the most critical concepts thoroughly (there is a LOT of overlap - almost everything I discuss here has been mentioned already in the Wiki notes). For the best effect, I encourage you to read *both* resources thoroughly.
A small note to begin with: Limbo is hard, but it's not *that* hard - like every endgame run in the game there is a large knowledge component, and with experience you will learn tricks to make the run much easier. For the people responsible for hilarious quotes such as "you need Level 80/x7 Demi/x5 Prince Win toons to beat the area" or "XRs are required to survive in Limbo", let me clearly highlight that in my not-so-humble opinion Limbo-P1 is an easier run than Saving Pelor (with a ~typical Abyss-composition party and deep knowledge of both runs). Since Saving Pelor is a Level 60 run and certainly considered 'doable', I'm confident that between the information in this thread and the Wiki, skilled players should find Limbo-P1 quite doable after a bit of practice (don't expect to be a pro after one attempt). So, onto the advice!
a) Immunity Gear (ie: before the run starts)
Compared to other endgame areas, Limbo is quite harsh in terms of requiring specific immunity gear. Your enemies will throw a lot of nasty abilities at you, some of them with extremely high DC (ie: 80+), and the most efficient way to handle these is with specific immunity. The ideal way is to cover them via randomization (eg: Stun Immunity added in green on a nice BUR), but those are damn rare so most of the time you will need to use Set Loot from Abyss/Elysium/Aboleths - I've added some basic suggestions next to each type, though this is by no means a complete list. Note that in many cases you don't need to have the immunity up full-time, with the more efficient method being to hot-swap between gear pieces when you need them. I strongly suggest being able to cover as many of these as possible (*loosely* in order of priority) before entering the run if you want a smoother learning experience.
b) Multi-Spawning
Probably the single aspect of Limbo which has been causing the most difficulty, the new spawn-trigger system is quite nasty for unfamiliar players who aren't able to adapt. I've often seen players claim that 'Limbo is easier with 5 players than 10', but IMO this is not directly true; a larger party *will* have greater firepower per target and thus should ideally result in a faster run. However, due to the inherent chaos of larger parties combined with less experienced players in a new area, the chance of activating multiple triggers at once is much higher. For people complaining that 10-toon party spawns seem GIGANTIC, you have most likely triggered 2-3 spawns (and maybe even a random) at once. In constrained areas (eg: Map 3 Islands), it's even more important to not get double-spawns since the triggers are closer together and there is less wiggle room for any mistakes. So, how do we manage this? We begin by learning how the triggers work.
c) Nightmare Monsters
There are only TWO monsters in the run that really fit into the 'nightmare' category (in terms of being able to single-handedly destroy a poorly organised party) - Chaos Rocs and Kaorti Alienists:
d) Archers
From our experiences of slamming through Hell/Abyss/LL runs, for the most part Archers are little more than an annoyance. This is absolutely not true in Limbo, and if you aren't prepared these guys will tear your party into shreds from a distance. Feral Elf Archers are the notably dangerous ones, with regulars firing their first shot at a ridiculous +131 AB along with a mid-DC Called Shot. If you don't have 100+ Parry or Critical Hit Immunity, you *will* get killed by them very quickly. How do we handle them?
e) Casters
Similar to other LL runs where the casters are the deadliest targets, most Limbo casters are deadly but thankfully very squishy. These have all been briefly mentioned in the Immunity Gear section, so keep in mind that you may want to swap on a piece of immunity gear whenever you see these guys (eg: Implosion immunity for Windscythe Confessor).
ALL of these targets are extremely high priority once they begin to attack you; if they are chilling far away then they are no threat, but once they move into close range tanks should beeline towards them and beat them down. A good 2H tank with the relevant immunity can usually kill them in one round, neutralising the threat efficiently and safely. *Loosely* in order of killing-priority, the four Limbo casters are:
g) General Limbo Hints
Smaller points that didn't quite deserve their own category, in no particular order:
f) Fundamental Endgame Skills
As has been stated in other threads, I feel HG's endgame has a smooth progression Shallow Hell -> Deep Hell -> Abyss -> Limbo. One underlying problem is that even with Paragon levels, most players have yet to master Deep Hell let alone Abyss, and general skills are grossly lacking. The following advice is not Limbo-specific at all, but is relevant to ALL endgame runs and absolutely essential for improving at the game:
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So there you have it, my take on the most important things to know for success in Limbo-P1. Congratulations if you made it this far, I hope it was informative and not too dull to read. Feel free to ask further questions below (though for some questions, I may not give a great answer - there are some things which are best left to discover for yourselves).
Happy hunting in Limbo!
A small note to begin with: Limbo is hard, but it's not *that* hard - like every endgame run in the game there is a large knowledge component, and with experience you will learn tricks to make the run much easier. For the people responsible for hilarious quotes such as "you need Level 80/x7 Demi/x5 Prince Win toons to beat the area" or "XRs are required to survive in Limbo", let me clearly highlight that in my not-so-humble opinion Limbo-P1 is an easier run than Saving Pelor (with a ~typical Abyss-composition party and deep knowledge of both runs). Since Saving Pelor is a Level 60 run and certainly considered 'doable', I'm confident that between the information in this thread and the Wiki, skilled players should find Limbo-P1 quite doable after a bit of practice (don't expect to be a pro after one attempt). So, onto the advice!
a) Immunity Gear (ie: before the run starts)
Compared to other endgame areas, Limbo is quite harsh in terms of requiring specific immunity gear. Your enemies will throw a lot of nasty abilities at you, some of them with extremely high DC (ie: 80+), and the most efficient way to handle these is with specific immunity. The ideal way is to cover them via randomization (eg: Stun Immunity added in green on a nice BUR), but those are damn rare so most of the time you will need to use Set Loot from Abyss/Elysium/Aboleths - I've added some basic suggestions next to each type, though this is by no means a complete list. Note that in many cases you don't need to have the immunity up full-time, with the more efficient method being to hot-swap between gear pieces when you need them. I strongly suggest being able to cover as many of these as possible (*loosely* in order of priority) before entering the run if you want a smoother learning experience.
Essential Immunities:
Breach - For Githzerai Stalkers (Archers); Self-explanatory
Power Word, Kill - For Githzerai Chaosweavers, relatively common through the entire run (especially Map 4); Lifebane Crown, Diviner's Defiance, Essence of the Last Word, Mortal Failings [not shown in the Wiki picture], or the absolute worst case scenario: Lathar's Last Belt
Implosion - For Windscythe Confessors, relatively common in Maps 1/2/3; Rampart of the Pact Primeval, Crown of Corruption, The Serpent's Coil, Conservancy, Ward of the Ixitxachitl, + various LL gear
High Electricity % Immunity - Overall the nastiest burst-damage element in the run, primarily from Feral Elf Stormwardens; Abjuration-holders should cast Energy Immunity: Electricity on everyone in the party! Strategic use of Druid's Storm Towers can be helpful, but in my experience it's not the most reliable method compared to simply boosting immunities
Weird - For Kaorti Alienists, Needed very rarely in Maps 1/2/3 (worth having a swap option available, or you'll be in for a nightmare); Empyrean Lenses, Hide of the Fiendish Aboleth, Mortal Failings, or saves in the mid 80's for both Fortitude/Will (ie: CHA-based builds with Paladin splash can skip Weird Immunity)
Useful Immunities:
Flesh to Stone - For Chaond Primalists + a few others, moderately useful in all maps; generally hard to cover outside of Half-Guardinal race, Sandals of Perdurance, Splint of Elril. ~75 Will is enough to be comfortable dropping immunity. Make sure the whole group is carrying 'Stone to Flesh' Rods!
Stun - Moderately useful in all maps; STR Artifact (Hand of Vecna), Covering of the Bulezau, Graz'zt's Demonic Codpiece, Mordant Lorica, Final Judgement + various LL gear
Daze - For Phasms, moderately useful in all maps; lots of options, notably Salamander's Augmenter. Clarity Potion or high CHA if nothing else
General Immunity % - Although Electric is probably the most critical, you still need to beef up your immunity against Elements/Exotics in general. I would probably rate Positive/Magic slightly higher than Divine, but HGX usually bugs in Limbo (due to the new Esoteric types) so it's hard to really know.
Luxury Immunities:
Disintegrate - Kaorti Alienists/Keketars in Maps 1/2/3; really hard to cover so it's usually not worth the hassle. Cruel Relief is okay as a swap option
Confuse - Quarks in Maps 1/2/3; Visage of Elemental Chaos, Claws of the Obyrith Lord, Hide of the Dread Ram, Remembrance of Iggilwiv, Scarlet Lenses, Exo-array + various LL gear
Polar Ray - The other nasty spell from Githzerai Chaosweavers, mostly due to the Stoning effect (NOT blocked by Flesh to Stone Immunity); Warlyon's Ward, Abhorrent Cold + maybe other LL stuff?
Levitation - For Feral Elf Skinwalkers in Drake Form; Racial bonus, Paragon feat, Ring of the Planewalker, Talisman of Pazunia, Gravity Slain, Wings of the Deva + various LL gear
Mord/Thunderclap/Silence - For Eolians, rarely needed in Map 3; lots of options, Bards can use HMR to provide Silence Immunity
If you think that this is all too difficult to fit at once, consider the following:
Just a basic example Tank setup covering all the Essential/Useful Immunities (minimal swapping required), while still leaving *plenty* of room for standard defensive gear.
Breach - For Githzerai Stalkers (Archers); Self-explanatory
Power Word, Kill - For Githzerai Chaosweavers, relatively common through the entire run (especially Map 4); Lifebane Crown, Diviner's Defiance, Essence of the Last Word, Mortal Failings [not shown in the Wiki picture], or the absolute worst case scenario: Lathar's Last Belt
Implosion - For Windscythe Confessors, relatively common in Maps 1/2/3; Rampart of the Pact Primeval, Crown of Corruption, The Serpent's Coil, Conservancy, Ward of the Ixitxachitl, + various LL gear
High Electricity % Immunity - Overall the nastiest burst-damage element in the run, primarily from Feral Elf Stormwardens; Abjuration-holders should cast Energy Immunity: Electricity on everyone in the party! Strategic use of Druid's Storm Towers can be helpful, but in my experience it's not the most reliable method compared to simply boosting immunities
Weird - For Kaorti Alienists, Needed very rarely in Maps 1/2/3 (worth having a swap option available, or you'll be in for a nightmare); Empyrean Lenses, Hide of the Fiendish Aboleth, Mortal Failings, or saves in the mid 80's for both Fortitude/Will (ie: CHA-based builds with Paladin splash can skip Weird Immunity)
Useful Immunities:
Flesh to Stone - For Chaond Primalists + a few others, moderately useful in all maps; generally hard to cover outside of Half-Guardinal race, Sandals of Perdurance, Splint of Elril. ~75 Will is enough to be comfortable dropping immunity. Make sure the whole group is carrying 'Stone to Flesh' Rods!
Stun - Moderately useful in all maps; STR Artifact (Hand of Vecna), Covering of the Bulezau, Graz'zt's Demonic Codpiece, Mordant Lorica, Final Judgement + various LL gear
Daze - For Phasms, moderately useful in all maps; lots of options, notably Salamander's Augmenter. Clarity Potion or high CHA if nothing else
General Immunity % - Although Electric is probably the most critical, you still need to beef up your immunity against Elements/Exotics in general. I would probably rate Positive/Magic slightly higher than Divine, but HGX usually bugs in Limbo (due to the new Esoteric types) so it's hard to really know.
Luxury Immunities:
Disintegrate - Kaorti Alienists/Keketars in Maps 1/2/3; really hard to cover so it's usually not worth the hassle. Cruel Relief is okay as a swap option
Confuse - Quarks in Maps 1/2/3; Visage of Elemental Chaos, Claws of the Obyrith Lord, Hide of the Dread Ram, Remembrance of Iggilwiv, Scarlet Lenses, Exo-array + various LL gear
Polar Ray - The other nasty spell from Githzerai Chaosweavers, mostly due to the Stoning effect (NOT blocked by Flesh to Stone Immunity); Warlyon's Ward, Abhorrent Cold + maybe other LL stuff?
Levitation - For Feral Elf Skinwalkers in Drake Form; Racial bonus, Paragon feat, Ring of the Planewalker, Talisman of Pazunia, Gravity Slain, Wings of the Deva + various LL gear
Mord/Thunderclap/Silence - For Eolians, rarely needed in Map 3; lots of options, Bards can use HMR to provide Silence Immunity
If you think that this is all too difficult to fit at once, consider the following:
Helm: Lifebane Crown (Power Word Kill)
Belt: The Serpent's Coil (Implosion, Exotic Resist)
Boots: Sandals of Perdurance (Breach, Flesh to Stone, Physical Resist)
Ring: [Anything with a lot of Electric %]
*Salamander's Augmenter (Daze)
*STR Artifact (Stun)
*Empyrean Lenses (Weird), to swap in case you spot a Kaorti Alienist
*Augmenter of the Salamander (E/SF: Listen), to replace typical helm-slot spent on Visor of Vigilance
Belt: The Serpent's Coil (Implosion, Exotic Resist)
Boots: Sandals of Perdurance (Breach, Flesh to Stone, Physical Resist)
Ring: [Anything with a lot of Electric %]
*Salamander's Augmenter (Daze)
*STR Artifact (Stun)
*Empyrean Lenses (Weird), to swap in case you spot a Kaorti Alienist
*Augmenter of the Salamander (E/SF: Listen), to replace typical helm-slot spent on Visor of Vigilance
b) Multi-Spawning
Probably the single aspect of Limbo which has been causing the most difficulty, the new spawn-trigger system is quite nasty for unfamiliar players who aren't able to adapt. I've often seen players claim that 'Limbo is easier with 5 players than 10', but IMO this is not directly true; a larger party *will* have greater firepower per target and thus should ideally result in a faster run. However, due to the inherent chaos of larger parties combined with less experienced players in a new area, the chance of activating multiple triggers at once is much higher. For people complaining that 10-toon party spawns seem GIGANTIC, you have most likely triggered 2-3 spawns (and maybe even a random) at once. In constrained areas (eg: Map 3 Islands), it's even more important to not get double-spawns since the triggers are closer together and there is less wiggle room for any mistakes. So, how do we manage this? We begin by learning how the triggers work.
Full disclosure that my understanding of the triggers has not been officially confirmed, but based on my experiences this is how it APPEARS to work:
*Each trigger has a counter
*When a party member steps on the trigger for the first time, the count is increased by one
*Once the count reaches a certain point (random, fixed, or based on party size? I'm not sure!), the trigger activates and the mobs spawn
*As with many other areas in the game, mobs (especially Archers) often spawn *past* the next trigger - if you rush them, the chance of a double-spawn is high
BASIC EXAMPLE: Black squares are players, orange circles are mobs spawned from the orange Trigger 1.
At this point, if Player 2 dies and Player 3 moves into Trigger 2 to rez him, there WILL be a second spawn (even though only 2 players would be within the trigger, which has happened already without a spawn); the counter 'remembers' that Player 1 had walked over it earlier. If you still don't quite get it, the takeaway point is that just because someone else has stood somewhere does NOT mean that it's safe for you to stand there too. This may seem obvious from looking at the diagram because you can literally see the triggers, but it can be quite surprising/disconcerting when it happens mid-run (and it will happen a lot if you don't take any precautions).
The best ways to avoid multi-spawns are:
1) The entire party should move very closely together! This ensures that triggers are activated promptly and you won't get a situation like the pictures, where you're feeling safe mid-fight without realising that a double-spawn is about to occur.
2) Move back after every spawn! Bit inefficient and not always needed, but if you pull every spawn towards you it will reduce the chance of a double-spawn to zero.
Randoms:
Further note about Limbo randoms, which are structured like the Abyss (max one per map, packed full of dangerous monsters and signalled by coloured lights under the spawn). You can essentially treat these as a double-spawn which you have no control over. When it happens, you need to RUN BACK ASAP. Essentially we obey step 2) from above, with an added bonus of possibly splitting the spawn in half which lets you deal with it in chunks. Bonus points if you drop a BBoD to distract the mobs and make splitting easier!
*Each trigger has a counter
*When a party member steps on the trigger for the first time, the count is increased by one
*Once the count reaches a certain point (random, fixed, or based on party size? I'm not sure!), the trigger activates and the mobs spawn
*As with many other areas in the game, mobs (especially Archers) often spawn *past* the next trigger - if you rush them, the chance of a double-spawn is high
BASIC EXAMPLE: Black squares are players, orange circles are mobs spawned from the orange Trigger 1.
At this point, if Player 2 dies and Player 3 moves into Trigger 2 to rez him, there WILL be a second spawn (even though only 2 players would be within the trigger, which has happened already without a spawn); the counter 'remembers' that Player 1 had walked over it earlier. If you still don't quite get it, the takeaway point is that just because someone else has stood somewhere does NOT mean that it's safe for you to stand there too. This may seem obvious from looking at the diagram because you can literally see the triggers, but it can be quite surprising/disconcerting when it happens mid-run (and it will happen a lot if you don't take any precautions).
The best ways to avoid multi-spawns are:
1) The entire party should move very closely together! This ensures that triggers are activated promptly and you won't get a situation like the pictures, where you're feeling safe mid-fight without realising that a double-spawn is about to occur.
2) Move back after every spawn! Bit inefficient and not always needed, but if you pull every spawn towards you it will reduce the chance of a double-spawn to zero.
Randoms:
Further note about Limbo randoms, which are structured like the Abyss (max one per map, packed full of dangerous monsters and signalled by coloured lights under the spawn). You can essentially treat these as a double-spawn which you have no control over. When it happens, you need to RUN BACK ASAP. Essentially we obey step 2) from above, with an added bonus of possibly splitting the spawn in half which lets you deal with it in chunks. Bonus points if you drop a BBoD to distract the mobs and make splitting easier!
There are only TWO monsters in the run that really fit into the 'nightmare' category (in terms of being able to single-handedly destroy a poorly organised party) - Chaos Rocs and Kaorti Alienists:
Chaos Roc:
Appears only in Map 3, but is moderately common there and the most common reason why newbie/PUG parties get wiped. These birds have a very wide AoE KD against a base check of 52 DEX, and these checks occur often. Also has a no-save 'Eat' ability, which will swallow a player and deal damage to them every round until they die OR the Chaos Roc is killed. They are extremely sturdy and have to be beaten down.
*Takes Bludge best (Fire/Divine are also okay); Arcanes can use Bigby's Clenched Fist (BB8)
*Try not to get KDed; Bards put up UUU, Clerics/Druid can use Foundation of Stone if required (in general you're better off just moving away), and tanks can wear +DEX check gear such as Greater Nimble Circle. Keep a close eye on your tanks and try to pick them up ASAP if they get KDed!
*Try to let someone less valuable get eaten; the last thing you want is for your only damager to get gobbled and then have no one left to kill the Chaos Roc
*Don't be ashamed to use Epics/Paragon spells in nasty encounter which contain Chaos Rocs. Immutable Force if you think it'll be messy (eg: 2x Chaos Rocs present), an offensive Miracle can be used to create some space, and Eradicate or Karsus -> BB8 is appropriate for high Paragon Chaos Rocs.
Kaorti Alienist:
Rare encounter in Maps 1/2/3, but are deadly when they show up. They cast a range of 'Psionic spells' which respect less immunities than normal (eg: ignore Spell School Immunity and counter-spelling), including gigantic DC Weirds (usually the cause of any party-wipes), Disintegrates and Stuns. Like all Kaorti, they are *very* sturdy and deal moderate amounts of Psionic kickback.
*Only really takes Physical damage (Bludge is best, followed by Pierce)
*Swap on Weird Immunity (and Disintegrate Immunity if possible) when you spot them, or you will get pwned. If you don't have Weird Immunity, do the intelligent thing and just run away. You might feel like a coward, but standing around to die to Weird a bunch of times over a few seconds does nothing to help your party except suck up Possum Charges that could have gone to someone else
*If there are multiple Alienists or a high-Paragon one, it can be a good time to use the Cleric's PSK Divination (Serendipitous Forethought) to minimise the chance of rolling low and dying
*If possible, control them with a Mord -> Bigby's Crushing Hand (BB9) so you can deal with other mobs first; Kaorti Alienists are too sturdy to focus down, you will invariably need to deal with them at the end of a spawn
*Don't kill yourself on their Psionic kickback! Heal regularly, Clerics should memorise Mass Heals and cast them to heal all the tanks who are bashing them
*Like all other Kaorti (and most humanoids on the run), they have one Potion of Heal in their inventory - pickpocket it!
Appears only in Map 3, but is moderately common there and the most common reason why newbie/PUG parties get wiped. These birds have a very wide AoE KD against a base check of 52 DEX, and these checks occur often. Also has a no-save 'Eat' ability, which will swallow a player and deal damage to them every round until they die OR the Chaos Roc is killed. They are extremely sturdy and have to be beaten down.
*Takes Bludge best (Fire/Divine are also okay); Arcanes can use Bigby's Clenched Fist (BB8)
*Try not to get KDed; Bards put up UUU, Clerics/Druid can use Foundation of Stone if required (in general you're better off just moving away), and tanks can wear +DEX check gear such as Greater Nimble Circle. Keep a close eye on your tanks and try to pick them up ASAP if they get KDed!
*Try to let someone less valuable get eaten; the last thing you want is for your only damager to get gobbled and then have no one left to kill the Chaos Roc
*Don't be ashamed to use Epics/Paragon spells in nasty encounter which contain Chaos Rocs. Immutable Force if you think it'll be messy (eg: 2x Chaos Rocs present), an offensive Miracle can be used to create some space, and Eradicate or Karsus -> BB8 is appropriate for high Paragon Chaos Rocs.
Kaorti Alienist:
Rare encounter in Maps 1/2/3, but are deadly when they show up. They cast a range of 'Psionic spells' which respect less immunities than normal (eg: ignore Spell School Immunity and counter-spelling), including gigantic DC Weirds (usually the cause of any party-wipes), Disintegrates and Stuns. Like all Kaorti, they are *very* sturdy and deal moderate amounts of Psionic kickback.
*Only really takes Physical damage (Bludge is best, followed by Pierce)
*Swap on Weird Immunity (and Disintegrate Immunity if possible) when you spot them, or you will get pwned. If you don't have Weird Immunity, do the intelligent thing and just run away. You might feel like a coward, but standing around to die to Weird a bunch of times over a few seconds does nothing to help your party except suck up Possum Charges that could have gone to someone else
*If there are multiple Alienists or a high-Paragon one, it can be a good time to use the Cleric's PSK Divination (Serendipitous Forethought) to minimise the chance of rolling low and dying
*If possible, control them with a Mord -> Bigby's Crushing Hand (BB9) so you can deal with other mobs first; Kaorti Alienists are too sturdy to focus down, you will invariably need to deal with them at the end of a spawn
*Don't kill yourself on their Psionic kickback! Heal regularly, Clerics should memorise Mass Heals and cast them to heal all the tanks who are bashing them
*Like all other Kaorti (and most humanoids on the run), they have one Potion of Heal in their inventory - pickpocket it!
From our experiences of slamming through Hell/Abyss/LL runs, for the most part Archers are little more than an annoyance. This is absolutely not true in Limbo, and if you aren't prepared these guys will tear your party into shreds from a distance. Feral Elf Archers are the notably dangerous ones, with regulars firing their first shot at a ridiculous +131 AB along with a mid-DC Called Shot. If you don't have 100+ Parry or Critical Hit Immunity, you *will* get killed by them very quickly. How do we handle them?
1) Have your camera zoomed out and be ready to adjust the angle so you can spot any Archers before they start destroying you
2) Bards use Dirge of the Deathless (Necromancy Epic) to provide Parry/Crit-Immunity to everyone in the circle; the Archers still hurt, but they won't be insta-killing you this way
3) Druids cast Storm Tower on the Archers, to give them 100% miss chance and thus nullify the threat; Storm Tower has a very long range, but be careful about moving out of LoS once it's down or the Archers might run out of the circle.
4) Clear the rest of the spawn and deal with the Archers last. Recall our discussion from a) about not multi-spawning, and be aware that if everyone rushes the Archers you will probably trigger another spawn
2) Bards use Dirge of the Deathless (Necromancy Epic) to provide Parry/Crit-Immunity to everyone in the circle; the Archers still hurt, but they won't be insta-killing you this way
3) Druids cast Storm Tower on the Archers, to give them 100% miss chance and thus nullify the threat; Storm Tower has a very long range, but be careful about moving out of LoS once it's down or the Archers might run out of the circle.
4) Clear the rest of the spawn and deal with the Archers last. Recall our discussion from a) about not multi-spawning, and be aware that if everyone rushes the Archers you will probably trigger another spawn
Similar to other LL runs where the casters are the deadliest targets, most Limbo casters are deadly but thankfully very squishy. These have all been briefly mentioned in the Immunity Gear section, so keep in mind that you may want to swap on a piece of immunity gear whenever you see these guys (eg: Implosion immunity for Windscythe Confessor).
ALL of these targets are extremely high priority once they begin to attack you; if they are chilling far away then they are no threat, but once they move into close range tanks should beeline towards them and beat them down. A good 2H tank with the relevant immunity can usually kill them in one round, neutralising the threat efficiently and safely. *Loosely* in order of killing-priority, the four Limbo casters are:
Chaond Primalist:
Druids that primarily use Cast in Stone and Bombardment. If you lack the immunity or have < 70 Will then you'll get stoned a lot, the most important thing is to be aware that it will happen to people in the party and de-stone them ASAP, while prioritising taking down the Primalist.
They are one of the few Weird targets on the run, but it's still usually quicker to just beat them down.
Windscythe Confessor:
Cast high-DC Implosions and a red 'life-draining' cloud (you really want to avoid this!). When you kill them they will summon a clone ONCE, so essentially you have to kill each Confessor twice. The most common mistake is to forget about the clone and move on, while the second Confessor starts to pwn the party.
Feral Elf Stormwarden:
Spell-casting is not the biggest threat (mostly Finger of Death and Ice Storm), but they have an aura which deals/inflicts MASSIVE Electric damage in an AoE (green lightning bolts). It also has a Heal Potion to be PP'd, and is a bit sturdier than the other casters.
A Paragon Stormwarden that is not handled well almost approaches 'Nightmare Monster'-tier in terms of how devastating it can be; Superiors/Elites heal on Electric, an efficient way to deal with them is to use a Storm Tower which will 1) provide Electricity immunity to reduce damage and 2) grant Electricity immunity to the Stormwarden themselves and thus prevent them from healing.
Githzerai Chaosweaver:
Arcanes with Ethereal Visage (helps to Dispel them first), casts a whole host of spells including Power Word Kill, Polar Ray and Greater Ruin (high DC). As mentioned above, the most troublesome ability is Polar Ray which has a short-duration stoning effect that pierces Flesh to Stone immunity.
Druids that primarily use Cast in Stone and Bombardment. If you lack the immunity or have < 70 Will then you'll get stoned a lot, the most important thing is to be aware that it will happen to people in the party and de-stone them ASAP, while prioritising taking down the Primalist.
They are one of the few Weird targets on the run, but it's still usually quicker to just beat them down.
Windscythe Confessor:
Cast high-DC Implosions and a red 'life-draining' cloud (you really want to avoid this!). When you kill them they will summon a clone ONCE, so essentially you have to kill each Confessor twice. The most common mistake is to forget about the clone and move on, while the second Confessor starts to pwn the party.
Feral Elf Stormwarden:
Spell-casting is not the biggest threat (mostly Finger of Death and Ice Storm), but they have an aura which deals/inflicts MASSIVE Electric damage in an AoE (green lightning bolts). It also has a Heal Potion to be PP'd, and is a bit sturdier than the other casters.
A Paragon Stormwarden that is not handled well almost approaches 'Nightmare Monster'-tier in terms of how devastating it can be; Superiors/Elites heal on Electric, an efficient way to deal with them is to use a Storm Tower which will 1) provide Electricity immunity to reduce damage and 2) grant Electricity immunity to the Stormwarden themselves and thus prevent them from healing.
Githzerai Chaosweaver:
Arcanes with Ethereal Visage (helps to Dispel them first), casts a whole host of spells including Power Word Kill, Polar Ray and Greater Ruin (high DC). As mentioned above, the most troublesome ability is Polar Ray which has a short-duration stoning effect that pierces Flesh to Stone immunity.
Smaller points that didn't quite deserve their own category, in no particular order:
Amorphion:
Nasty, sturdy monster with a big purple aura of spell-failure (essentially the same as Bueroza/Planetars), they take Bludge/Divine/Sonic best with a twist; they heal off one RANDOM element! You will have to hit it and experiment with the healing sparkles to determine which element it's healing from. I use a Bludgeoning Level 50 weapon with Sonic/Divine on it, and in the 1/5 chance that it's healing off Sonic I just use a non-Sonic weapon. They have very high SR but Arcanes can still hit them moderately often with BB8.
Nishruu:
Black blob of 'pure magic', it has a large red aura which provides a gigantic boost to SR (+15 IIRC) to all your enemies. They heal from Magic damage and have very high Conceal. Melees are generally pretty bad at hurting them, the most effective way to deal with them is for casters to use the Dispel line of spells against them. Haven't thoroughly tested different combinations of spells/CLs, but I can at least confirm that high CL Greater Dispelling deals very effective damage to them. All ABCD cores can cast it and take the Nishruu down pretty quickly (be careful not to misclick and Dispel your allies by accident!).
Pickpocket:
Finally a place for Rogues/Bards to show off their skills, the vast majority of humanoid mobs in the run carry 1x Potion of Heal. Getting into the habit of PP'ing all of them will reduce your run-time dramatically. Bards can learn/cast (Extended) Sticky Fingers on themselves and any other PP toons to significantly increase chance of success.
+16/+15 GMW:
+16 GMW is quite handy (eg: IoF, Pariah), since various mobs do have +16 Soak... but failing that, you really do want +15 GMW at the minimum. Bards should have already been taking +15 GMW for Abyss, but if you weren't already doing that, now is the time to start.
Damage Dealing:
In general, Electric is the best element to wield against most foes. Githzerai mobs (making up ~90% of Map 4, and including the boss) take Acid/Electric/Sonic/Positive best, but other than that Acid is often a weak element to use since it's by far the most common healing element (followed by Electric). My most basic recommendation would be to use a 'general weapon' which has Electric and no Acid.
Bards can cast Mass Haste to give extra APR to tanks against really sturdy targets (eg: Chaos Roc, Kaorti Alienist, the boss). The duration is only 1 round, so cast it Extended when possible and don't forget to re-cast it.
Boss Fight:
Some general tips for the boss fight (woqued's Wiki notes cover this in more detail!)
*Focus any trouble mobs first (eg: Amorphion)
*Whenever a Chaosweaver spawns, focus it down ASAP before it stones you via Polar Ray
*Keep track of what the boss is saying; everytime he talks he changes 'stance', which at times affects his immunities (eg: Phys-Only Stance, No-Phys Stance etc.)
*Abjuration foci for Arcanes can be very handy (MSD for reducing Conceal, PSK to block further summons) - I don't consider this a 'Limbo-specific choice', it's a very useful school for exactly the same reason in Hell/Abyss (notably the Asmodeus fight), and with the nerf of Reverse Gravity it hurts a lot less to swap Transmutation -> Abjuration
Run Variance:
There are a *lot* of different Limbo critters that can spawn, and you will see gigantic amount of spawn-variance across different runs. Sometimes you will only see one Windscythe Confessor in the entire run, while other times you will see 5 in the first map. Get used to adapting to different situations! The good news is that the run is very fun and in theory has high replayability due to the variance. Unfortunately the rewards are lame ATM so it's not great for full-time farming... but definitely worth checking out for the experience.
Demi-Shackling:
Not quite Limbo specific, but the mechanic was introduced for Limbo. You can take advantage of this strategically to make the run smoother for your party, by lowering the demi-count on toons that don't really need the penalty reduction.
*Bards are immune to KD from UUU thus don't really need to make STR/DEX checks, and since they have high Conceal they are not hit very often - prime candidates for x0 shackling! Note that in many cases, shackling will result in un-maxed Perform (and thus a reduction of Curse Song power) unless you have ESF: Perform as well.
*Clerics can self-GR to remove Hell penalties, definitely worth x2 shackling (and was common practice to simply hold your Cleric at x2 in the past)
*Most really sturdy DEX-tanks that have high Dodge % can afford the drop in penalties and shackle to x0/x2
*2Her tanks with low AC should probably avoid shackling to maximise their immunities as much as possible
Nasty, sturdy monster with a big purple aura of spell-failure (essentially the same as Bueroza/Planetars), they take Bludge/Divine/Sonic best with a twist; they heal off one RANDOM element! You will have to hit it and experiment with the healing sparkles to determine which element it's healing from. I use a Bludgeoning Level 50 weapon with Sonic/Divine on it, and in the 1/5 chance that it's healing off Sonic I just use a non-Sonic weapon. They have very high SR but Arcanes can still hit them moderately often with BB8.
Nishruu:
Black blob of 'pure magic', it has a large red aura which provides a gigantic boost to SR (+15 IIRC) to all your enemies. They heal from Magic damage and have very high Conceal. Melees are generally pretty bad at hurting them, the most effective way to deal with them is for casters to use the Dispel line of spells against them. Haven't thoroughly tested different combinations of spells/CLs, but I can at least confirm that high CL Greater Dispelling deals very effective damage to them. All ABCD cores can cast it and take the Nishruu down pretty quickly (be careful not to misclick and Dispel your allies by accident!).
Pickpocket:
Finally a place for Rogues/Bards to show off their skills, the vast majority of humanoid mobs in the run carry 1x Potion of Heal. Getting into the habit of PP'ing all of them will reduce your run-time dramatically. Bards can learn/cast (Extended) Sticky Fingers on themselves and any other PP toons to significantly increase chance of success.
+16/+15 GMW:
+16 GMW is quite handy (eg: IoF, Pariah), since various mobs do have +16 Soak... but failing that, you really do want +15 GMW at the minimum. Bards should have already been taking +15 GMW for Abyss, but if you weren't already doing that, now is the time to start.
Damage Dealing:
In general, Electric is the best element to wield against most foes. Githzerai mobs (making up ~90% of Map 4, and including the boss) take Acid/Electric/Sonic/Positive best, but other than that Acid is often a weak element to use since it's by far the most common healing element (followed by Electric). My most basic recommendation would be to use a 'general weapon' which has Electric and no Acid.
Bards can cast Mass Haste to give extra APR to tanks against really sturdy targets (eg: Chaos Roc, Kaorti Alienist, the boss). The duration is only 1 round, so cast it Extended when possible and don't forget to re-cast it.
Boss Fight:
Some general tips for the boss fight (woqued's Wiki notes cover this in more detail!)
*Focus any trouble mobs first (eg: Amorphion)
*Whenever a Chaosweaver spawns, focus it down ASAP before it stones you via Polar Ray
*Keep track of what the boss is saying; everytime he talks he changes 'stance', which at times affects his immunities (eg: Phys-Only Stance, No-Phys Stance etc.)
*Abjuration foci for Arcanes can be very handy (MSD for reducing Conceal, PSK to block further summons) - I don't consider this a 'Limbo-specific choice', it's a very useful school for exactly the same reason in Hell/Abyss (notably the Asmodeus fight), and with the nerf of Reverse Gravity it hurts a lot less to swap Transmutation -> Abjuration
Run Variance:
There are a *lot* of different Limbo critters that can spawn, and you will see gigantic amount of spawn-variance across different runs. Sometimes you will only see one Windscythe Confessor in the entire run, while other times you will see 5 in the first map. Get used to adapting to different situations! The good news is that the run is very fun and in theory has high replayability due to the variance. Unfortunately the rewards are lame ATM so it's not great for full-time farming... but definitely worth checking out for the experience.
Demi-Shackling:
Not quite Limbo specific, but the mechanic was introduced for Limbo. You can take advantage of this strategically to make the run smoother for your party, by lowering the demi-count on toons that don't really need the penalty reduction.
*Bards are immune to KD from UUU thus don't really need to make STR/DEX checks, and since they have high Conceal they are not hit very often - prime candidates for x0 shackling! Note that in many cases, shackling will result in un-maxed Perform (and thus a reduction of Curse Song power) unless you have ESF: Perform as well.
*Clerics can self-GR to remove Hell penalties, definitely worth x2 shackling (and was common practice to simply hold your Cleric at x2 in the past)
*Most really sturdy DEX-tanks that have high Dodge % can afford the drop in penalties and shackle to x0/x2
*2Her tanks with low AC should probably avoid shackling to maximise their immunities as much as possible
As has been stated in other threads, I feel HG's endgame has a smooth progression Shallow Hell -> Deep Hell -> Abyss -> Limbo. One underlying problem is that even with Paragon levels, most players have yet to master Deep Hell let alone Abyss, and general skills are grossly lacking. The following advice is not Limbo-specific at all, but is relevant to ALL endgame runs and absolutely essential for improving at the game:
1) Carry demi-shop rods/consumables
There's really no excuse for not having the basic rods after you are a x1 demi. Rods of Disaster/Stone to Flesh/Clarity/Remove Fear/Mords to name a few, are all extremely useful. Stick the BBoD and Stone to Flesh Rods into a quick-slot so you can access them quickly, and then ACTUALLY USE THEM WHEN YOU NEED TO. If your rods are low on charges, organise a Stygia run and go and replace them. Or better yet, buy a Magical Electrifier so you can have them charged full-time (at ~10b gold they are damn expensive, so the players who say "lol gold is worth nothing" are totally wrong!).
2) Understand how to stabilise a bad spawn
One of the most frustrating things, and where the gap between good players and average players becomes clear. The second the party gets split up and people start dying, the lack of close-range synergy and buffs can cause a vicious cycle where everyone starts to drop. Ideally you want to recognise a bad spawn before it destroys you; if you notice that you've gotten a random, double-spawn or got a nasty composition/party-split, this is a prime time to drop an Immute/offensive Miracle/Starfire to try and handle the threat before it gets to you.
But okay, you messed that up... what next?
a) Become Ethereal; doesn't matter if it's from Greater Sanctuary, Ghostly Visage, Essence of the Last Word, Chain of Solidarity, Potion of Etherealness or even a lowbie Precious ring from your Drow days (*everyone* should at least be carrying a few of those if they lack better options). The point is you need to get out of the fight and become safe ASAP!
b) Drop a BBoD and tell it to Hold Position; Use the Rod of Disaster we talked about 2 minutes ago. BBoD's are wonderful tanks and will soak all the nasty attacks for you.
c) Tell everyone to do what you just did; Communication is key, and most people won't realise that they're starting to lose control of the spawn and will continue to fight blindly. You need to lead the troops if you want the fight to end smoothly.
d) Gather the party together and prepare to reboot the fight; if some members need to rest, then let them rest while you wait. Otherwise, re-buff together and then re-engage the enemy together. You can also tell *some* of the BBoD's to 'Follow Me' and hopefully split the spawn into chunks and deal with it in a piecemeal fashion, which is usually a lot easier.
Following these very simple steps in messy spawns will result in clearing them a lot faster and preventing a lot of situations that would normally be party-wipes.
3) Make use of party support buffs
Bards can cast Extended Displacement on any toons that lack self-conceal, Clerics/Druids should cast Freedom of Movement on the entire party (increased mobility + prevents grapple from Lillends), Abjuration-holders cast Energy Immunity: Electricity, Clerics cast Greater Restoration on squishy 2H tanks... the list goes on. Don't be stingy on party buffs, they require little effort but make a very large difference in the long run.
4) Read the chat-box
Probably shouldn't need to be said for an online game, but too many players don't pay attention to the chat-box. You should ALWAYS be checking back to this, especially during messy situations, to look for instructions from more experienced players. The worst thing that can happen is for the entire party to agree to "run back!" and you stand there completely unaware, resulting in a negative gaming experience for everyone. Other examples include being able to spot when players are KD'd or Stoned or generally needing assistance. The most frustrating thing is when people don't read the chat and do exactly what you said not to, so try to avoid that happening by paying attention and respecting the wishes of the party; if you make a mistake, be polite and apologise. Here's a quick way to make me/other people never want to play with you again:
"Someone crashed, let's hold here - don't move ahead and spawn" -> *guy who has been useless for the entire run promptly moves ahead and triggers the next spawn, then says 'lol'*
5) Don't flat-foot
At this point it's just NWN101. If you are flat-footed (not taking any actions), you are a sitting duck and will get killed very easily. Especially important for casters, if you haven't queued spells you will become flat-footed by default as soon as you finish casting. If you have nothing better to do, just spam Heal Potions (drinking a potion counts as an action which prevents flat-footing).
6) Have an open mind
Be humble and accept that you don't know everything about the game, because ALL of us have things to improve upon; NWN/HG is an incredibly deep game and I'm always learning new things and improving. Unless you are playing almost perfectly, just focus 100% on improving your own play and fixing your own mistakes before criticising others or calling them 'noobs'.
Don't be afraid to ask questions, and always strive to get better at the game. Try and challenge yourself to explore the harder areas, stepping outside the comfortable zones of Shallow Hells to explore Deep Hell/Abyss first. As mentioned earlier, if you aren't familiar with the Abyss then your experiences in Limbo will probably not be so enjoyable.
Educate yourself using the Wiki and various resources posted by other players; Laser's General Advice post + Raj's guides to Spell Resistance and Weapon Crafting are all excellent resources that EVERYONE should read.
There's really no excuse for not having the basic rods after you are a x1 demi. Rods of Disaster/Stone to Flesh/Clarity/Remove Fear/Mords to name a few, are all extremely useful. Stick the BBoD and Stone to Flesh Rods into a quick-slot so you can access them quickly, and then ACTUALLY USE THEM WHEN YOU NEED TO. If your rods are low on charges, organise a Stygia run and go and replace them. Or better yet, buy a Magical Electrifier so you can have them charged full-time (at ~10b gold they are damn expensive, so the players who say "lol gold is worth nothing" are totally wrong!).
2) Understand how to stabilise a bad spawn
One of the most frustrating things, and where the gap between good players and average players becomes clear. The second the party gets split up and people start dying, the lack of close-range synergy and buffs can cause a vicious cycle where everyone starts to drop. Ideally you want to recognise a bad spawn before it destroys you; if you notice that you've gotten a random, double-spawn or got a nasty composition/party-split, this is a prime time to drop an Immute/offensive Miracle/Starfire to try and handle the threat before it gets to you.
But okay, you messed that up... what next?
a) Become Ethereal; doesn't matter if it's from Greater Sanctuary, Ghostly Visage, Essence of the Last Word, Chain of Solidarity, Potion of Etherealness or even a lowbie Precious ring from your Drow days (*everyone* should at least be carrying a few of those if they lack better options). The point is you need to get out of the fight and become safe ASAP!
b) Drop a BBoD and tell it to Hold Position; Use the Rod of Disaster we talked about 2 minutes ago. BBoD's are wonderful tanks and will soak all the nasty attacks for you.
c) Tell everyone to do what you just did; Communication is key, and most people won't realise that they're starting to lose control of the spawn and will continue to fight blindly. You need to lead the troops if you want the fight to end smoothly.
d) Gather the party together and prepare to reboot the fight; if some members need to rest, then let them rest while you wait. Otherwise, re-buff together and then re-engage the enemy together. You can also tell *some* of the BBoD's to 'Follow Me' and hopefully split the spawn into chunks and deal with it in a piecemeal fashion, which is usually a lot easier.
Following these very simple steps in messy spawns will result in clearing them a lot faster and preventing a lot of situations that would normally be party-wipes.
3) Make use of party support buffs
Bards can cast Extended Displacement on any toons that lack self-conceal, Clerics/Druids should cast Freedom of Movement on the entire party (increased mobility + prevents grapple from Lillends), Abjuration-holders cast Energy Immunity: Electricity, Clerics cast Greater Restoration on squishy 2H tanks... the list goes on. Don't be stingy on party buffs, they require little effort but make a very large difference in the long run.
4) Read the chat-box
Probably shouldn't need to be said for an online game, but too many players don't pay attention to the chat-box. You should ALWAYS be checking back to this, especially during messy situations, to look for instructions from more experienced players. The worst thing that can happen is for the entire party to agree to "run back!" and you stand there completely unaware, resulting in a negative gaming experience for everyone. Other examples include being able to spot when players are KD'd or Stoned or generally needing assistance. The most frustrating thing is when people don't read the chat and do exactly what you said not to, so try to avoid that happening by paying attention and respecting the wishes of the party; if you make a mistake, be polite and apologise. Here's a quick way to make me/other people never want to play with you again:
"Someone crashed, let's hold here - don't move ahead and spawn" -> *guy who has been useless for the entire run promptly moves ahead and triggers the next spawn, then says 'lol'*
5) Don't flat-foot
At this point it's just NWN101. If you are flat-footed (not taking any actions), you are a sitting duck and will get killed very easily. Especially important for casters, if you haven't queued spells you will become flat-footed by default as soon as you finish casting. If you have nothing better to do, just spam Heal Potions (drinking a potion counts as an action which prevents flat-footing).
6) Have an open mind
Be humble and accept that you don't know everything about the game, because ALL of us have things to improve upon; NWN/HG is an incredibly deep game and I'm always learning new things and improving. Unless you are playing almost perfectly, just focus 100% on improving your own play and fixing your own mistakes before criticising others or calling them 'noobs'.
Don't be afraid to ask questions, and always strive to get better at the game. Try and challenge yourself to explore the harder areas, stepping outside the comfortable zones of Shallow Hells to explore Deep Hell/Abyss first. As mentioned earlier, if you aren't familiar with the Abyss then your experiences in Limbo will probably not be so enjoyable.
Educate yourself using the Wiki and various resources posted by other players; Laser's General Advice post + Raj's guides to Spell Resistance and Weapon Crafting are all excellent resources that EVERYONE should read.
So there you have it, my take on the most important things to know for success in Limbo-P1. Congratulations if you made it this far, I hope it was informative and not too dull to read. Feel free to ask further questions below (though for some questions, I may not give a great answer - there are some things which are best left to discover for yourselves).
Happy hunting in Limbo!