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Post by Terankar on May 12, 2017 21:24:18 GMT
I know this and that's what I say in the quote as well.
If we take the normal scytche, it outperforms the G.sword.
If we take the HGE Scytche, it is even better than the G.sword, so it is better than the G.sword even more so on HG-enhanced.
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Post by Raj on May 12, 2017 21:29:35 GMT
You know nothing Kaos Snow.
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Post by chirality on May 12, 2017 21:55:01 GMT
even all that "real world application" (aka important stuff ) aside, the model still needs adjusting for HG edits. using his math (we'll analyze details below) shows scythe to still pull ahead by ~2 points, but we know from ingame experience that 2her% gsword crits from fully buffed oc/dc high dmg 2h toon are more than enough to 1shot most trash or at worst heavily injure higher hp crittables; scythe x1 extra crit multiplier is generally overkill tbh, and gsword is critting twice as often; it's basically comparison of 1600 scythe crits vs twice as many 1300 gsword crits. limbo makes gsword again just as attractive, or more, for double the crit frequency, despite lower crit damage, due to propensity of crittables, and in pre-limbo endgame scythe's couple extra phys on noncrittables is mainly useful only on a few mobs due slash type, so on these crit imm priority targets scythe is only really providing advantage vs alki, arcane ooze, and serpents; and for deep endgame outside limbo, bludg is still mainly king, so 2her there will be best served using a maul. all in all, it's an extra feat invested for little advantage, altho i'll be the first to say i love(d) scythes and i loved having huge phys vs serpents and oozes; but we see the end result after considering realistic HG application: scythe losing dual phys type for average 2 points of dmg per hit, retaining enormous crit numbers but now it's a slash only like gsword, and her crits are still penetrating with more than enough massive damage to get the job done on both pre-limbo trash and limbo slash prios. For tons of spare feats it's not a poor investment or choice, but gsword will remain extremely popular since last update. Ultimately, as I mentioned above, it's false that scythe outperforms all other weapons in this module by a mile, so let's end the derail here. ________________________________________________________ instead of 19-20/x4 vs 17-20/x2, let's find his entry for 17-20/x3 (HG greatsword, and been for many years at x3 not x2) on his table: 17-20x3: AvDam*(15/20 + 4/400 + 3*76/400) = AvDam * 1.33 HG greatsword vs 19-20x4: AvDam*(17/20 + 2/400 + 4*38/400) = AvDam * 1.235 scythe gsword base damage was reduced to 1d10, which would reduce base damage from his calculation to 5.5, so 25.5 * 1.33 = 33.915 meanwhile scythe base damage was buffed from 2d4 to 2d8, so we'll adjust base damage from 5 to 9, so 29 * 1.235 = 35.815yielding end result of ~2pts difference in favor of scythe. __________________________________________________________________________
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Post by Raj on May 12, 2017 22:00:36 GMT
tl;dr
Redo all fail math with 20/x4 vs 19/x3 base.
Make a bunch of assumptions that won't work with HG enemies/weapons/character stats.
And then realize this is a juggernaut build with mercurial sword being hijacked.
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Post by fallenwizard on May 12, 2017 23:45:32 GMT
I dont know what's the discussion about, exo wep > non exo, you pay extra feat for better base dmg which means it is marginally better. As it should be. Bastard sword > great sword more than a scythe does, it requires to be wielded by a small character however.
As Raj mentioned, this is a jugger build thread, which means to wield 2h you only have huge weps as options, merc gs and lance.
If you want to have debate which of gs vs scythe is better, you'd have to run the numbers vs multiple different AC's as well as take different enemy HP thresholds into account (does 1 big crit kill something, does a flurry kill something, does it take whole round to kill something, would a lucky flurry kill something etc). Generally HG favors the one that crit more often, since 2handers usually pack enough AB to crit even on lower ab attacks.
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Post by teleben on May 13, 2017 5:36:14 GMT
I have a lvl 71 Merc Jugger with this class make up. A robed version for Monk AC that started with 14 Wis. You mentioned it in pros, but I wanted to highlight further how much of a lifesaver the fighter greater parry is. This is total invincibility like the old version of immute. Not just crit imm. It is also a quick action, so you can fire it off instantly when your Hit Points are low to finish an enemy off, quaff a heal, reposition etc. You also have warriors whetstone for self keen and another damage increase.
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Post by chainlink on May 15, 2017 10:40:32 GMT
Where's the Stealthy at level 1 noted as I can't see it in the subrace section?
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Post by Raj on May 15, 2017 14:47:03 GMT
You have blooded free, not stealthy.
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Post by chainlink on May 15, 2017 15:00:24 GMT
PreLL give xp to everybody, not only xp pen toons, so you're just sweetening the pill there Tbh eating xp pen for one free feat and at the same time getting a 1 bab loss is a bad choice, because it looks like you're not going to walk around in robes to make use of monk ac (or if you do, that wisdom could use a bump at character creation). 30 fighter 5 harper 5 wm for no xp pen, much welcomed bonus attacks and other freebies, would work better while keeping the same build concept. If you're reincarnating or focusing more on the lvl70/2x+ playtime, 30 fighter 7 wm 3 blackguard also works well despite your meh starting charisma (raise it a bit and you'll get good enough free damage/saves, and poison ability for the lulz). You are giving up on a huge benefit of starting with half orc, aka being able to take stealthy at 1 and qualify for LSA:Hide, getting good concealment from camouflage: worth the INT investment, because with double concealment/edodge you can wear light/medium armor and be solid enough to facetank in level appropriate areas even with a two handed weapon; in alternative, should you opt for Harper and cross-classed hide, use the 'free' (due to blooded covered) level 1 feat for a save feat enabler, because your saves are -very- low, despite your 60+ claim (on a tank you want saves in the low-mid 70s at 80). All options are going to cost you some points of STR but since you're not dc based losing 2-4 points is not the end of the world, that ab/disarm is high enough. Stealthy at level 1 as mentioned in an earlier post, I'm guessing begging for a 55% conceal just won't cut it compared to the max Hide based one.
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Post by Raj on May 15, 2017 15:07:53 GMT
You don't see it in the feat selection at level 1?
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