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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 22:25:18 GMT
Are there any current end-game Turner builds out there?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2017 18:02:17 GMT
^
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Post by woqued on Sept 28, 2017 18:03:54 GMT
I'd be tempted to say there are no endgame turners period
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Post by louisvilleslugger on Sept 28, 2017 18:09:31 GMT
Notes: Arti=CHA Pandect=Energy Resist
to get +20 armor +20 shield AC, you cast magic vestment FIRST, then gird and it will stack
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60 Cleric
Race: Human
Subrace: "Half-Celestial" (secret Beyond UltraRare; adds wings) - FC: Cleric - WIS +6, CHA +4, free feat: Spell Focus Evocation, free feat: Greater Spell Focus Evocation - free feat: Epic Skill Focus Heal, sr 10 + 1/lvl, able to walk on quicksand
Starting Stats:
Str 8 Con 8 Dex 8 Wis 16(22) -10 Int 12 -4 Cha 18(22) -16
1., feat: SF-Divination, h.feat: extra turning {Domain: Fire, Plant} 2. 3., feat: GSF-Divination 4. (CHA every time) 5. 6., feat: Metamagic-Extended Spell 7. 8. () 9. , feat: SF-Enchantment 10. 11. 12., feat: GSF-Enchantment () 13. 14. 15., feat: SF-Abjuration 16. () 17. 18., feat: GSF-Abjuration 19. 20. ()
Pre-Epic Save= (fort=12, reflex=6, will=12 ) -Base
EPIC
21., feat: G.CHA 1 22. 23., c.feat: G.WIS 1 //WIS23// 24., feat: G.CHA 2 () 25. 26., c.feat: G.WIS 2 //WIS24// 27., feat: G.CHA 3 28. () 29., c.feat: G.WIS 3 //WIS25// 30., feat: G.CHA 4 31. 32., c.feat: Planar Turning () 33., feat: G.CHA 5 34. 35., c.feat: ESF-Divination 36., feat: G.CHA 6 () 37. 38., c.feat: ESF-Enchantment 39., feat: G.CHA 7 40.()
Epic Save= (fort=22, reflex=16, will=22)
LEGENDARY:
41., Book: Epic Spell Penetration 42., Feat: Domain-Sun () 43. 44. () 45., Feat: Domain-Good 46. () 47. 48. , Feat: G.CHA 8() 49. 50. () 51. , Feat: G.CHA 9 52. () 53. 54. , Feat: G.CHA 10() 55. 56. () 57. , Feat: ESF-Abjuration 58. () 59. 60. , Feat: LSF-Divination ()
Leg. Base save = fort=27, reflex=21, will=27)
PARAGON:
63 PSF-Divination 66 PSK-Divination 69 LSF-Abjuration 72 PSF-Abjuration 75 Leg. Spell Penetration 78 Para. Spell Penetration OR Domain-Destruction
==================================== Pre-Demi Skills (total skill pts= 2 + 1 INT + 1 Human = 4)
Discipline,cc=31 Tumble,cc=30 Concentration=63 Parry=63 Spellcraft=1
PARAGON (61-80) Persuade=63 (!opt tauntpersuade)
===================================== Pre-Demi Saves CON8(22)=6, DEX8(22)=6, WIS25(39)=14, +20 to save throw from items
Fort=27+6+20=53 Reflex=21+6+20=47 Will=27+14+20=61
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Post by woqued on Sept 28, 2017 18:11:11 GMT
Did you take that thing to limbo more than a few times ? I recall you being a lil disappointed, how'd it turn out in the end? What's your take on it across Hells/Abyss/Abo/Limbo?
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Post by louisvilleslugger on Sept 28, 2017 18:12:23 GMT
Note on above build: There's some argument for and against taking Destruction domain. The reason is because if you don't destroy the machine, it damages them, and area kickback happens. Also the scripting on machines is very odd. they usually won't destroy until all the other turnables are gone.
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Post by louisvilleslugger on Sept 28, 2017 18:13:17 GMT
Did you take that thing to limbo more than a few times ? I recall you being a lil disappointed, how'd it turn out in the end? What's your take on it across Hells/Abyss/Abo/Limbo? Hells and abyss are fine. Limbo is not. The slaads and a few others will turn, but not die. Some argument to whether that's beneficial. Rebuke works on a lot. Acaos mentioned making trillochs a turner target, but that was long ago and probably way down the list of "to do's".
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Post by louisvilleslugger on Sept 28, 2017 18:19:40 GMT
As for aboleth, the mists are banishable (and banish uses CHA mod). Rebuke (only ESF enchant, but CHA mod as well) has some targets as well (but weird usually will kill them first unless the mage is slacking). Aboleths are Greater dispelling targets once your abjuration is PSF.
Elysium has no turnables unless you take 1 blackguard minimum. Rebuke has some targets, but weird will get them first.
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Post by louisvilleslugger on Sept 28, 2017 18:32:45 GMT
Also, you can possible rework attributes/feats when x2 demi. The above build is 1st level, not factoring in demi
The WIS 25 req for planar turning is what I'm referring to (could drop G.WIS feats and take planar turn/extra domains late with working a bit with layout)
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Post by louisvilleslugger on Sept 28, 2017 20:21:20 GMT
Example of Using Demi Stats to move things around a bit: Also note the paragon spell (serendipity) might be chosen differently (like eradicate instead, in which you'd leave Enchant at ESF instead of Necro, and swap out the Divination focus/knowledge).
60 Cleric
Race: Human
Subrace: "Half-Celestial" (secret Beyond UltraRare; adds wings) - FC: Cleric - WIS +6, CHA +4, free feat: Spell Focus Evocation, free feat: Greater Spell Focus Evocation - free feat: Epic Skill Focus Heal, sr 10 + 1/lvl, able to walk on quicksand
Starting Stats:
Str 8 Con 8 Dex 10 -2 Wis 15(21) -8 Int 12 -4 Cha 18(22) -16
1., feat: SF-Divination, h.feat: extra turning {Domain: Fire, Plant} 2. 3., feat: GSF-Divination 4. (CHA every time) 5. 6., feat: Metamagic-Extended Spell 7. 8. () 9. , feat: SF-Enchantment 10. 11. 12., feat: SF-Necromancy () 13. 14. 15., feat: SF-Abjuration 16. () 17. 18., feat: GSF-Abjuration 19. 20. ()
Pre-Epic Save= (fort=12, reflex=6, will=12 ) -Base
EPIC
21., feat: G.CHA 1 22. 23., c.feat: GSF-Necromancy 24., feat: G.CHA 2 () 25. 26., c.feat: ESF-Necromancy 27., feat: G.CHA 3 28. () 29., c.feat: GSF-Enchantment 30., feat: G.CHA 4 31. 32., c.feat: ESF-Abjuration () 33., feat: G.CHA 5 34. 35., c.feat: ESF-Divination 36., feat: G.CHA 6 () 37. 38., c.feat: ESF-Enchantment 39., feat: G.CHA 7 40.()
Epic Save= (fort=22, reflex=16, will=22)
LEGENDARY:
41., Book: Epic Spell Penetration 42., Feat: Legendary Spell Penetration () 43. 44. () 45., Feat: G.CHA 8 46. () 47. 48. , Feat: G.CHA 9() 49. 50. () 51. , Feat: G.CHA 10 52. () 53. 54. , Feat: LSF-Enchantment() 55. 56. () 57. , Feat: LSF-Abjuration 58. () 59. 60. , Feat: LSF-Divination ()
Leg. Base save = fort=27, reflex=21, will=27)
PARAGON:
63 Planar Turning **requires x2 demi to increase WIS to 25** 66 Domain-Sun 69 Domain-Good 72 PSF-Abjuration 75 PSF-Divination 78 PSK-Divination
==================================== Pre-Demi Skills (total skill pts= 2 + 1 INT + 1 Human = 4)
Discipline,cc=31 Tumble,cc=30 Concentration=63 Parry=63 Spellcraft=1
PARAGON (61-80) Persuade=63 (!opt tauntpersuade)
===================================== Pre-Demi Saves CON8(22)=6, DEX8(22)=6, WIS25(39)=14, +20 to save throw from items
Fort=27+6+20=53 Reflex=21+6+20=47 Will=27+14+20=61
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Post by Test on Oct 10, 2017 9:03:56 GMT
Has anyone experimented with a Rad Gen Turner using demi stats? I presume with 17 wisdom at creation.
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Post by chainlink on Oct 10, 2017 11:53:19 GMT
The original Hell obliterating Turner was a Rad gen one (that was when turning mechanics were as per the vanilla game), these days the only benefit you'd get (over a Half-Celestial) would be one more turn per rest and some free metamagics which isn't huge when you lose out on levitation and innate spell resistance. Plus even with demi status you'd need to burn stat points or epic bonus feats to get your final Wisdom to 21 so that the 4 from demi get you to the 25 required for Planar Turning.
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Post by Test on Oct 10, 2017 19:14:42 GMT
The original Hell obliterating Turner was a Rad gen one (that was when turning mechanics were as per the vanilla game), these days the only benefit you'd get (over a Half-Celestial) would be one more turn per rest and some free metamagics which isn't huge when you lose out on levitation and innate spell resistance. Plus even with demi status you'd need to burn stat points or epic bonus feats to get your final Wisdom to 21 so that the 4 from demi get you to the 25 required for Planar Turning. I was more thinking of the following line from the explanation of current turning: > A turner's destruction DC is equal to 10 + (Turner levels / 4) + (Cha modifier) + (2 within Medium radius or 1 within Huge radius). Due to some randomized gearing options that I have for a turner the lev thing is a non-issue (BUR breach ring with massive added property elemental % plus a PW). The difference appears to be that you miss out on one Epic (so probably Enchant, Abj and Div?) and the spell resistance, plus lev in other gearing options, verses the added destruction DC point and the points you mention (plus the 25% fire immune from Rad Gen?). How much difference would that DC point actually make is the question I guess. It would make Rad Gen a halfway step between HC and Half-Janni in terms of DC (but definitely not in terms of other benefits as Half-Janni appears uberly godly).
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Post by chirality on Oct 11, 2017 6:13:34 GMT
The original Hell obliterating Turner was a Rad gen one (that was when turning mechanics were as per the vanilla game), these days the only benefit you'd get (over a Half-Celestial) would be one more turn per rest and some free metamagics which isn't huge when you lose out on levitation and innate spell resistance. Plus even with demi status you'd need to burn stat points or epic bonus feats to get your final Wisdom to 21 so that the 4 from demi get you to the 25 required for Planar Turning. you missed the only benefit that matters, 1dc you also missed 2 PL points
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Post by chainlink on Oct 11, 2017 6:51:55 GMT
If that meant any difference to what you could turn/kill I'd agree but from what I've seen when testing turners with varying Cha scores it doesn't, even with the Druid paragon spell Stolen Lifeforce up there is no noticeable improvement in what my Half-Celestial Turner does so I'd say its not worth it. Now if I ever manage to get my hands on Half-Janni I'll do some testing and confirm whether that improves the situation. I think it comes down to the turning mechanic - To destroy turned creatures you need to beat their turn resistance by more than 10 and this is just not possible even with an extra DC point. Basically Turners stun lots of stuff and destroy trash, you won't be able to destroy the big boys PF, MB, Balor, etc. even with a couple more DC and whilst it might make removing some of the slightly higher TR mobs marginally easier its not a game changer. I like the added flexibility Outcast suggested by taking more spell schools on a multi-demi reincarnation to at least allow a chance at banishing and rebuking stuff, in fact banish has become one of my favorite spells when critters summon stuff that I don't want to waste turns on.
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