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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 15:36:31 GMT
I am looking for a pure rogue build that is sturdy (unit if possible) and can perform all picker and searcher duties. If it's possible to also add any sort of meaningful damage into this mix, that would be swell too but not required.
Race to be built around is Kolyarut specifically. Offering your choice of a STR, DEX, Speed, or 1 billion gold for something viable. Cheers.
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Post by rainbowdash on Oct 16, 2017 16:57:36 GMT
how does one deem if a build is viable or not?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 17:10:03 GMT
If it can perform all searcher and picker functions. If it can be popped on front of Asmo or a prince and be sturdy and not get rekt. The damage factor is nice but not required as mentioned above so can it meet the checks / has enough there to tank the bosses and not the floor.
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Post by rainbowdash on Oct 16, 2017 17:33:20 GMT
well u gonna play from scratch or reinc something 1x 2x 3x 4x 5x ? number of princewins what kind of equip do u have at your disposal wraps shs etc. Given a blank build is never a good idea in my humble opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 17:47:05 GMT
Starting from scratch. I will be leveling him to 60 as a drag in conjunction with my other toons. Demi cycles I can take care of really quickly. Prince wins will come too. No reincarnation would take place until after double Demi at the earliest.
I have one wrap to use on him if needed. Wide variety of weapons. And some nice pieces of added props. He will be in a decent spot. Have SH as well.
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Post by desocupado on Oct 16, 2017 20:24:17 GMT
Given your objective - a side character for rogue duties (doing sneak attacks requires active flanking btw) you should not go pure. This allows a fighter paladin splash.
Additionally, if roll 20 isn't a concern - you could have a tanky bard, cleric or druid with rogue splash instead providing more utility and tankability.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 22:21:53 GMT
I am looking for a pure rogue build that is sturdy (unit if possible) and can perform all picker and searcher duties. If it's possible to also add any sort of meaningful damage into this mix, that would be swell too but not required. This is where it becomes relevant whether you are building from scratch or reincarnating. If you check out the Wiki Rogue page, it breaks down the skill requirements. Essentially you need to have an INT modifier of +14/+12 to cap Search/Disable Trap respectively (you can get an Embroidered Augmenter for SF: Search pretty easily, reducing the INT requirement to 11 there), and a DEX modifier of +14 to cap Open Lock, which will usually be achieved by default. The issue is that higher level toons get more stats than lower level ones (demi-god bonuses of +2/+4, Paragon bonuses of +1/+2, item bonuses of +14/+16), so the amount of DEX/INT you need to take is dependent on what level/demi-status/gear you will be able to use. After hitting the required INT hurdle, the rest of the build pretty much writes itself. You can aim to hit the DEX cap for light armor and then just put the rest into STR. Go 1H and use a Morningstar if you are medium-sized, or a Kukri if you are small-sized. Take the usual melee feats, get enough Discipline/saves, and put any spare feats into Improved Sneak Attack once you're satisfied with your STR. As far as dealing good damage, that depends almost entirely on 1) whether you have a Wrap of the Dark Prince, and 2) how often you are flanking and getting Sneak Attacks.
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Post by Enius the White on Oct 17, 2017 0:28:02 GMT
If you deem it desirable to go pure, then here is KCs Elven Uni/St Rogue that should work out in this ballpark for Koly, as food for thought/discussion:
Elf - "Kolyarut" (secret Beyond UltraRare subrace) - no race requirement STR +5, DEX +5, INT +2, CON +4, CHA -2, WIS -2, free feat: Dodge, free feat: Mobility, free feat: Spring Attack
40 rogue
Stats Create Sub 60+14's 80+DD+16's STR 17 22 64 74 DEX 15 22 40 48 CON 12 14 30 38 WIS 8 6 20 28 INT 14 16 30 38 CHA 8 6 20 28
one extra point
- all points into STR
- con artifact
- shield pandect
Pre-Epic - Bullheaded - Weapon Focus (morningstar) - Toughness - Greater Weapon Focus (morningstar) - Improved Evasion - Improved Critical (morningstar) - Defensive Roll - Great Fortitude - Opportunist - Iron Will - Crippling Strike
Epic - Epic Weapon Focus (morningstar) - Epic Prowess - Skill Mastery - Armor Skin - Slippery Mind - Great Strength I - Improved Sneak Attack I - Great Strength II - Great Strength III - Improved Sneak Attack II - Great Strength IV - Improved Sneak Attack III
Legendary -Legendary Skill Affinity (Discipline) -Great Strength V -Legendary Weapon Focus (morningstar) -Improved Sneak Attack IV -Legendary Fortitude -Legendary Will -Epic Dodge
Paragon -Paragon Weapon Focus (morningstar) -Great Strength VI -Great Strength VII -Great Strength VIII -Great Strength IX -Great Strength X
Skills Craft Armor: 63 Craft Weapon: 63 Disable Trap: 63 Discipline: 63 Hide: 63 Listen: 63 Open Lock: 63 Parry: 63 Search: 63 Set Trap: 5 Tumble: 60 Pick Pocket: 54 Concentration: 41 (Cross Class)
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Post by alaresa on Oct 17, 2017 1:12:30 GMT
I believe there is an issue with your math. Highlighted in red below.
Elf - "Kolyarut" (secret Beyond UltraRare subrace) - no race requirement STR +5, DEX +5, INT +2, CON +4, CHA -2, WIS -2, free feat: Dodge, free feat: Mobility, free feat: Spring Attack
40 rogue
Stats Create Sub 60+14's 80+DD+16's STR 17 22 64 74 DEX 15 22 (should be 20) 40 (Should be 38) 48 (should be 46) CON 12 14 30 38 WIS 8 6 20 28 INT 14 16 30 38 CHA 8 6 20 28
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Post by condude1 on Oct 17, 2017 2:09:08 GMT
I think that's because he used base race: elf. The constitution is 2 lower than it should be if those stats included the base race modifiers.
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Post by chainlink on Oct 17, 2017 7:00:47 GMT
Pretty much what I have, there is some justification for swapping the Con artifact for the Str one especially if you're planning to go to Limbo a lot (and if the Con total poison immunity removal tweak ever gets implemented). Whilst you could add in Ftr levels for Weapon Specialisation and something for saves (Pal or BG) the amount of feats you'd lose may be a cost you'd not want to accept. One thing worth knowing is that whilst amnesia has no obvious affect it does nerf skill mastery so if you have been affected by this you will need a GR to perform your Rogue skills with no penalty. One other thing to bear in mind is that Morning Star now only does piercing damage which was not the case when the build was originally posted so it might be worth looking at one of the other Rogue weapons if you want to do slashing or bludgeoning damage instead.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 23:37:12 GMT
I believe there is an issue with your math. Highlighted in red below.
Elf - "Kolyarut" (secret Beyond UltraRare subrace) - no race requirement STR +5, DEX +5, INT +2, CON +4, CHA -2, WIS -2, free feat: Dodge, free feat: Mobility, free feat: Spring Attack 40 rogue Stats Create Sub 60+14's 80+DD+16's STR 17 22 64 74 DEX 15 22 (should be 20) 40 (Should be 38) 48 (should be 46)CON 12 14 30 38 WIS 8 6 20 28 INT 14 16 30 38 CHA 8 6 20 28 I have created this Rogue following the above guide, the stats provided by Alaresa are accurate. For some reason I am getting the Koly stats, but not the Elf adjustments as well? I am getting all the Elf feats and bonuses. Just not the +2 Dex / - 2 Con. Any thoughts or help to offer here? If you factor in the Elf stats with Kolyarut it should look like: STR +5, DEX +7, INT +2, CON +2, CHA -2, WIS -2. Why are the Elf stats not applying?
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Post by hackenslay on Oct 19, 2017 1:04:02 GMT
The base race stats are automatically added during creation, so you don't see them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 1:18:16 GMT
The base race stats are automatically added during creation, so you don't see them. So, KingCamaro has the stats wrong in his build then? To clarify? He shows a 7 point DEX jump which, if you take DEX to 15 yourself, +2 from Elf and +5 from Koly should have you hit 22. I've made a couple of these and can't hit the 22 STR and 22 DEX after all edits as indicated.
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Post by condude1 on Oct 19, 2017 2:35:11 GMT
On char creation, you should be putting con to 10, not 12. Dex, likewise, should be 17, not 15. Base race bonuses are added before you put points anywhere.
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