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Post by vent on May 3, 2018 10:44:22 GMT
Outsider or Undead ? I AM asking which form would be better for limbo and abyss/abo and which one for hells I think that undead is better overall but I want to listen more experienced players
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Post by tank on May 3, 2018 11:44:40 GMT
yup those exist
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Post by greven on May 3, 2018 23:06:30 GMT
For an ability using (not tank) shifter, Outsider is better in Abyss and much better in Abo, Undead is better in Hells.
Haven't tried Outsider in Limbo, but it can't be worse than Undead, as the Undead shapes simply have insufficient ac for Limbo.
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Post by desocupado on May 4, 2018 1:06:35 GMT
Well undead has a handy CL boost with baelhorn, level drain and banshee wail without Spell resistance. Domination with vampire gaze and mediocre melee (due scythes losing their dual damage type) with embeded death magic effect - all that with lousy AC and Dexterity. Although critical immunity does work well with enough damage immunity.
The low dexerity is usually an issue in hells due enryes - i.e. it's best to only use undead shapes after they are down. That being said - banshee can outpeform sorcerers in terms of death magic there (death magic targets there usually have high SR)
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The best outsider shape for hells is raksha and it's never ending thunder clap spamming - although it tends to agravate bard trying to use curse song (deafness). Leonal is a pretty durable tank shape - albeit on the sword and board side of damage (even with monk splash). Azer chieftain and Mordron's coruscading beam tend to be on the mediocre side of damage types there (they are uber undewater). Slaad offers a much needed acid damage type option - handy for malebranches (on top of your cold for pit fiends). The magic damage can also be handy on occasion.
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For Hells I'd vote on Undead - just make sure to handle dexterity checks smartly. Abyss has a real good mileage out of outsider - their damage types are handy, there are underwate maps, even slaad halps on a few annoying confusion prone areas. Same goes for abo (you also need construct for abo)
I'm not sure about shifter effectiveness in limbo - but only leonal has decent ac (str and dex as well) but it's damage is low. So I'd think an AC optimized risen lord might be more useful overall.
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Post by drunkenboastor on May 4, 2018 16:32:20 GMT
If you have not tried a shifter in endgame areas, I would strongly suggest taking dragon. Strong defenses, able to instant kill gust-able creatures, and has the highest overall damage potential of any of the shapes.
If you are looking for a farmer for Aboleths and Hive, outsider is most efficient shape to have.
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Post by vent on May 5, 2018 7:50:32 GMT
My shifter was built around dragon and construct however I can swe that I will have 4spare feats (1 at epic , 4 at para) That is Perfect for a shape and feats to boost its power
Thank you guys for those posts, Its all good stuff : )
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Post by chainlink on May 8, 2018 8:03:31 GMT
If you have not tried a shifter in endgame areas, I would strongly suggest taking dragon. Strong defenses, able to instant kill gust-able creatures, and has the highest overall damage potential of any of the shapes. If you are looking for a farmer for Aboleths and Hive, outsider is most efficient shape to have. And makes an awesome accidental Implosion sink due to its colossal size and flappy wings/sticky out tail bits brings back memories of some of my original hells outings with Cathedralmasters dragon druid.
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