|
Post by woqued on Feb 27, 2020 18:25:12 GMT
Hello! I think we could have a casual thread for casual item ideas. Derailing, posting wonky ideas and completely off-the-cuff thoughts is welcomed.
Even if it's just "my class is this, and I feel like it's lacking in way x. Any ideas?"
or "I wish my class had this in item slot x. How do we make that happen?
or "I haven't thought this through, but this sounds funny. What do you think?"
Go nuts.
|
|
|
Post by woqued on Feb 27, 2020 18:28:42 GMT
Example:
My idea for AA bow upgrades:
Only 1 type of damage, no exotic 2d12 or something messing around ruining your day by doing an inconsequential amount of damage only to heal stuff, and a special feature on four separate bows that drop that may be combined into one same as AA bows. Features: 1. inflicts a stacking Immunity corrosion lowering the elemental immunity of the damage type AA is doing by 3 per hit, up to a maximum of 15%. Toggle on by using !aaim [Integrating this bow allows to swap elemental types up to 25d10 damage of that type + potential ego]. 2. inflicts a stacking Concealment drop on the target, lowering total concealment by 1 per attack, up to a maximum of 5%. !aacc [Integrating this bow allows the swapping of Exotic damage types, up to 20d10 + potential ego] 3. inflicts a stacking Piercing corrosion, lowering Physical DRs by 3/- per hit, up to a maximum of 9/-. !aadr [Unnaturally large, this large bow allows user with 48 str or more to fire abnormally large arrows, dealing 15d10 of an elemental type and an extra 15d10 of piercing damage]. 4. inflicts a debuff preventing regen on target. !aadeg [Allows the user to deal Internal damage, up to 12d10 per attack].
End result: a curious effect + decent damage and +18 mighty/soakpierce. Arguably these could be class features, but I think getting this kinda special effect from an endgame zone can be very gratifying.
I think AAs being a supportive yet destructive singletarget destroyer is cool. I haven't played AAs much so I'd need some help figuring out a proper damage number before suggesting anything; currently they get fukt by a proper 2hander or even 1handers, but I think a melee built to do damage that gets to hit should do more damage than a bowarcher, just not THAT much more unless the AAs also provide supportive features of some kind. I like these types of supportive functionalities.
What would be enough to compete with [ 12d12 + 12d12 + 8d12 ]*1,4 with better crits and higher physical?
-> AAs have the advantage of faster damage type swapping than this and with proper knowledge they penetrate that ONE damage that the monster is most vulnerable to, not two or three. Now the problem here is that most monsters don't have just one type that they take and are very sturdy to others; usually they are durable vs 1-3 types and take 2-3 types quite well (across ele/exo; then theres also physicals to worry about where melees are also more versatile)... Dunno what fits, but heres one take on it.
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on Feb 27, 2020 21:56:55 GMT
Hello! I think we could have a casual thread for casual item ideas. Derailing, posting wonky ideas and completely off-the-cuff thoughts is welcomed. Even if it's just "my class is this, and I feel like it's lacking in way x. Any ideas?" or "I wish my class had this in item slot x. How do we make that happen? or "I haven't thought this through, but this sounds funny. What do you think?" Go nuts. I actually considered starting a thread asking people to list current best-in-class items for their builds that can use upgrading, to help with brainstorming. Good idea. Funky
|
|
|
Post by gladi8or on Feb 27, 2020 21:58:17 GMT
1) Make Barbarians Great Again! - Get rid of the shapestrong rage changing when you swap weapons. It's so intolerable! Hardly anyone plays barbarians for this exact reason. I only made and leveled one to 80 recently because it was the only tank XR subbie I had at the time.
2) For mele Rangers to get the wisdom ac bonus using a large weapon the choices are trident (1d10,20,x4 ) and spear (1d8,19-20,x2). These are far from equal. Thus, a more viable option for ranger could be to put spears on the same damage level as tridents. I also have suggested in the past that double weapons be another option for rangers to use in the same way. Why not quarter staffs? I can visually see a ranger running through the woods with a quarter staff in hand rather than a trident, lol. I love rangers, I just think weapon options are somewhat limited. Out of pure curiosity, why don't quarterstaffs get the two handed bonus?
I've said both of these suggestions in the past, but I believe they provide players more options in game play. Also, for newer players, why would you make a ranger (who wasn't of a smaller race) unless you had gathered enough tridents to be effective? The one thing I love most about this game is the crafting customizing options. Let's be honest, when was the last time anyone used a double weapon?
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on Feb 27, 2020 22:19:20 GMT
You're going to have to elaborate on this one, as I don't have enough time these days to play and develop, and I have no idea what you're talking about, aside from a vague suspicion that you're hitting a specific antiex related to weapon swapping. HOWEVER, as it doesn't have anything to do with the thread topic, please make another thread to elaborate. You can use a bastard sword until we fix the bug that permits wisdom ac with it, which we will likely be doing once Mechanus drops. That particular build is half the reason for all the wails about 2Her damage, though apparently no one is willing to say so out loud. Other than that, I don't see ranger weapon choices changing much, though we have a long-pending set of edits I would love to do to rebalancing weapons. Also, you can dual spears, which might be part of the reason for that discrepancy. Not sure, but I don't think you can do so with the trident. Out of pure curiosity, why don't quarterstaffs get the two handed bonus? Monks. Funky
|
|
|
Post by woqued on Feb 27, 2020 23:10:42 GMT
Bard armor -
Bindings of the Eternal Minstrel
When you use Bard Song, also Curse targets in a Huge radius [note: often Chorus for larger cursing is better, but this would be better for when things turn sideways and spawn has monsteres that need cursing and party has players that need Song] While wearing, Displacement grants EV concealment [standard bard armor] When casting Ghastly Visage turn enemies in small radius for 1 round [unique special]
Light armor - BAC: 2
Bard slot 1 x6 [2 more than Echoes of Creation from Hells] Bard slot 2 x6 Bard slot 3 x6 Bard slot 4 x6 Bard slot 5 x6 Bard slot 6 x6 Bard slot 7 x3 [3 more than existing non-randomized bard armours] Arcane Spell Failure: -20% Damage immunity: Bludgeoning 20% [5% upgrade on all 3 from the previous bard armours) Damage immunity: Piercing 20% Damage immunity: Slashing 20% Haste Freedom Enhancement bonus: Charisma +16 Enhancement bonus: Constitution +16 Enhancement bonus: Dexterity +16 Immunity: Mind Affecting Spells Immunity: Knockdown Immunity: Fear Immunity: Silence Skill bonus: Perform +25 Skill bonus: Parry +25 Skill bonus: Persuade +15 Saving Throw Bonus: Death +25
I feel like some kind of defensive thing could be interesting on this armour, but the turning on GV is already a strong unique panic management tool that stacking defenses on this would be overkill. Whaddya think ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2020 23:37:09 GMT
Woqued, I love your bard armor idea, I think with it being a paragon item a bit more would be justified though. Tack an extra 5% physical imms on, as well as throw some resistances in there, even if it’s just one resistance type that may be super applicable? Kind of like anarchic is to limbo? So take one of the core pieces of Mechanus and throw one on.
I love the idea of curse on sing, but I think I separately from that, the larger curse radius should also be maintained, but only when specifically cursing, not stacking with this song effect.
Radius options like the Chorus of the Damned or the Druid torch are HUGE wins and should be built upon in my mind.
|
|
|
Post by woqued on Feb 27, 2020 23:42:55 GMT
Woqued, I love your bard armor idea, I think with it being a paragon item a bit more would be justified though. Tack an extra 5% physical imms on, as well as throw some resistances in there, even if it’s just one resistance type that may be super applicable? Kind of like anarchic is to limbo? So take one of the core pieces of Mechanus and throw one on. I love the idea of curse on sing, but I think I separately from that, the larger curse radius should also be maintained, but only when specifically cursing, not stacking with this song effect. Radius options like the Chorus of the Damned or the Druid torch are HUGE wins and should be built upon in my mind. I won't lie, my initial draft was 25% physicals, but at the time it also had esoteric immunity on it. Somehow I ended up removing both from the item It does look a little plain now for a Mechanus item doesn't it; Limbo phys robe has 25% or 30% on it too.. Then again, I value the GV unique special quite highly. Could remove the silence from the item (it's just fluff convenience really) and add in something like 40% elemental immunity of some type, or something. But it's hard to have high enough Damage Resistance of any t ype on this item on top without feeling like having to put that damage resistance elsewhere; XR items with resistance on them have so much of them... Maybe 35/- elementals would be enough to cover complete lack elsewhere in gear, but leave you wanting so it isn't too strong? Edit: I feel like Chorus is amazingly strong too, but Chorus and Echoes remaining unique in some way seems fun - then again, pre-Chorus barding feels SO BAD in comparison. Maybe the large radius curse should be here too and take away the unique song mechanic :/
|
|
|
Post by elgrathforestwalke on Feb 28, 2020 0:02:11 GMT
How about giving AA's a bow or bows that can dispel, breech or mord on hit similar to a slinger's ability to breech.
|
|
|
Post by woqued on Feb 28, 2020 0:22:54 GMT
How about giving AA's a bow or bows that can dispel, breech or mord on hit similar to a slinger's ability to breech. I would love that, but that's seemingly stepping on Slingers' toes. I actually feel like AAs mording on hit would be thematically correct and play to their strengths in taking out enemy spellcasters (and their shields so it's actually doable).
|
|
|
Post by simpetar on Feb 28, 2020 9:40:25 GMT
You can use a bastard sword until we fix the bug that permits wisdom ac with it, which we will likely be doing once Mechanus drops. That particular build is half the reason for all the wails about 2Her damage, though apparently no one is willing to say so out loud. Bug? Working exactly as described: "To receive this AC bonus, the Ranger must (...) and if wielding a melee weapon must wield one which can be equipped in the off-hand." Bastard swords can be equipped in off-hand by medium and large creatures, therefore they qualify for wisdom AC when held by small rangers. The same would apply to clubs or longswords for instance. If anything is a bug, it is spears / tridents that can be held in off-hand - probably a game oversight - but everybody got used to that and it does little harm. For a similar reason (small) rangers cannot get wisdom AC from morning stars or whips, simply because the game does not have off-hand animations for these 2. This would have made sense when hells were the end game and before the monster immunity and resistance revision - where most of tank priority targets are crit immune. You need to look at critical range and multipliers and this is where quarterstaff utterly fails with 20/x2 base. High number of attacks that monks are able to get with a quarterstaff (typically 6 base + 1 haste + 1 wrap + possibly HS boots) are largely negated by DR in current end game and poor crits mean that QS monks will not kill tank targets fast enough. QS monks are extinct and the once coveted aboleth staff lost meaning, every self-respecting monk will pick another 2h weapon instead and outperform QS. Suggestion 1: (actually suggested years ago and according to SG pending for implementation) have all 2h weapons apply the bonus ONLY to physical part of damage, this will put weapons in line. Suggestion 2: if the previous one is hard to implement, QS could get at least +20% as 2h bonus, akin to shapestrong barbs.
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on Feb 28, 2020 17:44:40 GMT
You can use a bastard sword until we fix the bug that permits wisdom ac with it, which we will likely be doing once Mechanus drops. That particular build is half the reason for all the wails about 2Her damage, though apparently no one is willing to say so out loud. Bug? Working exactly as described: "To receive this AC bonus, the Ranger must (...) and if wielding a melee weapon must wield one which can be equipped in the off-hand." Bastard swords can be equipped in off-hand by medium and large creatures, therefore they qualify for wisdom AC when held by small rangers. The same would apply to clubs or longswords for instance. If anything is a bug, it is spears / tridents that can be held in off-hand - probably a game oversight - but everybody got used to that and it does little harm. For a similar reason (small) rangers cannot get wisdom AC from morning stars or whips, simply because the game does not have off-hand animations for these 2. Bug. Unless your small ranger is able to offhand bswords, of course, but that would also be a bug. The description does not say 'which can be equipped by anyone in the off-hand', and your reading is, shall we say, strained, at best. Or are we to assume that they should be able to get ac for anything a shapestrong barb can offhand? Give me a break. Also, not how it was meant to be implemented, fwiw. Agreed. It also made sense a few years ago when we last looked at it. DR in current endgame is less prevalent. Do you have data on this? ...and crit immune is also less prevalent, so I take your point. Yup. Still pending implementation. This is part of our plugin debt. We may have to look at this. However, I want to take a look at how 2Hs actually stack up after Mechanus drops, and we fix the above bug. I have a feeling the main 2H bonus will simply drop a bit, which I can do without a plugin. We would then apply some amount to qstaffs as well. I have a feeling 40/20 will be about right, but I'm not eager to slow down Limbo runs any until we a) have more data and b) figure out a better way to make them less sloggy. I need to observe a couple to see if people are taking advantage of enough speedkill methods, though I assume they are, and don't have much time for playerstalking these days. A likely solution will be enabling faster means of killing certain tough critters which incorporate currently underfavored classes. Until then, monks are a particular problem as it relates to quarterstaves. On a semi-related note, is anyone willing to do a new thread with a poll ranking current good/bad builds? Listing all the (main) possible builds would be quite an undertaking, and it's critical for us to understand the current state of play - monk staffers, for example. A 3-5 tier system would do it, if anyone has the time to just propose rankings the community could debate. Funky
|
|
|
Post by desocupado on Feb 28, 2020 20:06:19 GMT
Make a barbarian helmet that increases both rage aura radius and DC/effects. Stun in addition to fear would be pretty interesting.
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on Feb 28, 2020 20:18:30 GMT
Was wondering if a fear aura edit might not be more suitable to distinguish them. Stun in an aura would be pretty powerful, though. What % of the time can a barb keep fear aura up during spawns on a run?
Funky
|
|
|
Post by woqued on Feb 28, 2020 21:18:44 GMT
Barb CC barbs have more or less 99% uptime on Rage unless you're a carpet in which case you run out fast due to dying and rebuffing - the duration is alright, the charge amount is not inexhaustible. In Limbo pt2 you can run out of rages due to long periods of non-resting particularly if there are really hard fights or low damage in party - most other areas it is very unlikely.
Fear aura changes won't be enough to "fix" barbs in comparison to other things: currently they are either
1. glass cannons (regular 2h, no shield, no shapestrong interactions - LOW ac unless Monk, die to infliction)
2. Low damage, sturdy (1h+shield) -> decent ac, high hp - but fear aura alone is low utility so rather be a spelltank or an inflictor
3. Plagued by incredibly unfun gameplay via shapestrong 20% mechanic that means you are incredibly inflexible thanks to the terrible weapon swapping which makes one of your primary jobs that is killing key targets with the right weapon dreadful - but get to have decent damage and high defenses - and fear aura is still just mediocre utility on its own.
Strong enough utility upgrade to fear aura to make them compete with other utility melees? Many ways to go about it I suppose. Stun in an aura could be interesting but not sure it helps with what makes barbs unfun to play in the endgame at the moment. Would you be super excited to use that? I'm actually not very well versed with how many mobs (or dangerous mobs) are immune to Stun, and competing with Vestiges is tough.. Maybe a new helm + vestige cloak powered megafear barb could be a viable utility build, even more so if fear gets some general change to it. That would give pure barbs a potential reason to exist.
I like the idea of a item that increases fear aura radius or general small reworks to Fear Aura, via items or otherwise. RDDs get their upgraded fear aura mechanics from a XR subrace, I think items or general reworks are way better ways to go about it - pigeonholing class defining mechanics to races is not very fun (RDDs have very little other than Fear Aura thats going for them). Maybe we need an RDD item as well.
|
|