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Post by arek on Mar 3, 2020 20:36:20 GMT
True, SLs are extremely feat-tight. A normal battledruid would be almost as tight. I still play a variant of "The Mighty Storm" (check the stormlord build forum), and don't get Abj focus (that small radius works you just need to know where to drop it). I do get Evo, Conj (para), and Illusion, tho. I don't take trans...and won't on any SL - we don't benefit from it the way normal druids do. Now, yes, Wrap loses me 1 attack/round, which hurts, but if it means I can provide better utility, I can live with it. Stormlords are actually more about tanking anyway (I think they have similar potential to Battleclerics), which is why they NEED extra utility. Now, back on topic, AoB doesn't stack with NB/BC/Mord, so I don't see the problem with an extra point of SR drop attached to an endgame-level item for them. It might end up being a problem if it affects regular NB, but that's why you set the item to require the quasi. And losing that 1 attack/round and requiring an item to get regular NB on a battledruid would still be a meaningful build choice. -- arek
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Post by horbag on Mar 4, 2020 18:03:19 GMT
i would love to see an item that lets monks strip crit imm 2 or 3 times a day, also something like a MF/chaosward would realy be lovely so we EU players don't have to do about 1000 runs to get the items before we can attempt a limbo run
something to increase the banish potential would be realy be a great boon for meny casters
maby a bag of some kind where you can put in different artifacts, i often need to switch between helm or belt on my tanks or when i farm artifacts for other characters and each time i am lucky to have a PH on every toon wich i know moste don't have thus they have to swap servers to put the arti in the bank to then come back to be able to pick it up without blowing up wich is quite a hassle
and i have never seen anything other than a ring with breech imm that doesn't effect the concealment of the monks so a new item where the monk's conceal wouldn't drop would also be lovely
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Post by woqued on Mar 4, 2020 18:44:04 GMT
Page 3 reminder: if you get inspiration or are satisfied with what you've come up with otherwise, don't forget to post it in the other thread that is the main suggestion thread. My plan for this was just to clutter that one less, so don't forget to chime in and get to the finishing line.
More ideas on different sets: Round, Armor - Fight!
Set robe upgrade to the Caster Wraps (Wiz/Sorc) Robe 16 AC Automatically empowers any Spell Mantle spell cast Grants you 3 uses of Greater Spell Mantle CL 55 per day +1 spellpen 4x all slot tiers below 5 6x all slots 6 and above Grants feat ESF:Lore +15% all physical immunities +10% all elemental immunities +10% exotic immunity to magic +5% immunity to Anarchic (or whatever is suitable for Mechanus/Atropus) Immunity: Death Magic Immunity: Mind Affecting Saving Throws: Universal +8 +25 Lore +25 Craft Armor +20 Concentration +16 INT +16 CHA
Set light armor for Cleric, Angelic Medic type idea combined with pre-6 stuff. Upgrade to Chorus, Raphaels and competition to XRs, but in light armour format. BAC 3 AC 18 Increases the duration of Greater Restoration by 2 rounds Can be activated to cast CL:60 Greater Restoration on all targets within Medium radius (again, the smaller radius the better to encourage active play). Potential idea: increase Prayer spellpen by 2 to encourage more active and efficient play. +1 spell pen +1 dc to spells below 6 (soo basically HB and Bestow since poison got fucked. Could be interesting to give them Maximize feat instead of this) 6x to all slots below 6 4x to level 7 and 9 slots 8x to level 8 slots (ext. GR and Mass Heals are here among other things) +25% Physical Immunities +10% immunity to Divine +10% immunity to Sacred Immunity: Knockdown Immunity: Fear (fluff, because all caster clerics have Wis arti anyway - this would benefit melee/tank/bot clerics but it does fit the theme of courageous rescue) Saving Throws: Universal +8 Saving Throws: Reflex +10 +20 Heal +20 Tumble +20 Concentration +4 against Dexterity stat checks +16 WIS +16 DEX Increases movement speed by +0.25 Grants wings and thus Levitation. Note: yes this would be good on non-caster clerics too, priority is helping the cleric stay in battle and be supportive in general: but the sp/dc is there for the casters.
Barbarian armor: Skin of Horror Increases Barbarian Terrifying Aura radius by 1 size from Medium to Large 10% less Feedback damage taken BAC: 5 (Note: Yes, it would be better as light armour with BAC 3, but medium bac 5 might be decent if shapestrong + large shield becomes good and I don't want to design every armor to be a light armour. That's why there is a lot of immunities/DRs on this item. I won't design any Heavy Armours, they all suck. Until that is changed it makes no sense to design them) AC: 19 +30% Physical immunities (about an upped XR) 35/- Physical Damage Reductions (slightly below average XR) +25% Immunity to Electric (Total ele imms 25% total less than an unrandomized unauged XR) +25% Immuntiy to Sonic +10% immunity to Anarchic Saving Throws: Universal +8 Regeneration +10 +16 CON +16 CHA Epic Skill Focus:Intimidate +30 Intimidate +20 Listen +20 Craft Armour
Amulet of Grounding +19 Nat AC (this would look so much prettier as 20, but no can do) Cannot be tossed special +4 STR Checks +4 DEX Checks +16 STR +16 DEX Immunity: Knockdown Spell Immunity: Reverse Gravity Spell Immunity: Implosion Survival: Vacuum Physical Immunity: 5% All Phys DR 30/- all Saving Throws: Universal +8 Saving Throws: Reflexes +15 Saving Throws: Traps +15 ^Rare drop, very coveted due to being universally strong. Seems suitable for hard mode Mechanus end boss loot to me. Competes with XRs augmented and randomized (less imms and DR, but has that snazzy Implosion, Stat checks & Toss immunity).
Self-reminder for other items/notes: - Armor for Herald - base ideas Light Armour with Spen+DC and causes Cloudkill to apply 1d4 Con damage and the complementing Small (or Large?) Shield that reduces Feedback damage by 25% to finish off the set // Stormlord (crapton of slots and defenses + something that helps their Natures Balance or Magic Fang) // GI armour can't be made before class changes - Helmet for AAs that has their ego power, not stacking with the ego. The Class being tied to that rng piece of shit sucks, ego existing to provide more gear slot flex is interesting. - Some sort of upgrades to the following: Paladin gloves from Elysium (the crit imm ones; some other effect would be interesting, like a partywide courage/morale/teamwork buff of some sort) - A Druid Robe upgrade from Wrap / Ekolid armor - Another go at Shifter staves, last idea was a bust, ended up being too strong and hard to implement. Just flat immunities and DC? - Not designing much evil loot, yet, saving most of those ideas for Atropus (optimistic I know). Mechanus could be guarding a couple evil secrets though so maybe something interesting for Lash of Hatred - OC/DC Whip gloves that improve their Bladethirst spells negative damage portion?
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 4, 2020 23:04:31 GMT
Some helpful suggestions!. I'll run them by the team, as I have trouble gauging exactly how good to make things. And suggesting specifics is the hardest part, so thank you. That said... ^Rare drop, very coveted due to being universally strong. Seems suitable for hard mode Mechanus end boss loot to me. Competes with XRs augmented and randomized (less imms and DR, but has that snazzy Implosion, Stat checks & Toss immunity). This is player code for 'seriuosly OP'. I can see at least three properties I would not put on the same ammy. This is the kind of loot I might, but probably wouldn't, put on the endgame boss. Out of curiosity, what is this upgrading from, for you?: Also, as of now, I don't think there will be a hardmode Mechanus. It's possible, but the rationale is lacking both ingame (i.e. plot/RP) and out (we intend to push Llymic with a much smaller wait after Mechanus than Limbo. Funky
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Post by woqued on Mar 4, 2020 23:41:52 GMT
Some helpful suggestions!. I'll run them by the team, as I have trouble gauging exactly how good to make things. And suggesting specifics is the hardest part, so thank you. That said... ^Rare drop, very coveted due to being universally strong. Seems suitable for hard mode Mechanus end boss loot to me. Competes with XRs augmented and randomized (less imms and DR, but has that snazzy Implosion, Stat checks & Toss immunity). This is player code for 'seriuosly OP'. I can see at least three properties I would not put on the same ammy. This is the kind of loot I might, but probably wouldn't, put on the endgame boss. Out of curiosity, what is this upgrading from, for you?: Also, as of now, I don't think there will be a hardmode Mechanus. It's possible, but the rationale is lacking both ingame (i.e. plot/RP) and out (we intend to push Llymic with a much smaller wait after Mechanus than Limbo. Funky Yeah not gonna lie it has way too much It is op, and easily the strongest item out of all of the items I ever suggested including in the previous Limbo loot threads. I too think it is padded - but then again, I am just spoiled having seen what other people have shown me - but these people have farmed Limbo much more than I have, I have not rolled amulets. Assumption is it has to compete with XR gear and with people having more sources and longer time spent on farming Canopics, it has to be really strong if it is an universal item, not a specialist. That being said, it does have too much. For me? It would be an upgrade on tank cleric for a Pharaohs ammy with stun and daze immunity on it that has net total of 80% elemental immunities, or on Bard for a similar Pharaoh, or a Strongheart on some tank, most likely. So for me it would be a huge upgrade. I was comparing it to XR amulets I've been shown with ~~40 DR on all physicals ~~10% all physical immunities, 19 ac and an UR aug slammed - and that was years ago, I didn't even get to see how insane items the Profiteer lunatics got in their years of farming. Then again, XR items not being able to be "asmo sworded" limits the power creeping a little bit. Which three properties shouldn't be on it at the same time? I wanted to see which properties draw your eyes the most.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 5, 2020 2:07:54 GMT
+19 Nat, Cannot be tossed, Survival: Vacuum. The last mostly due to future areas. Implosion immune is a close contender.
Funky
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Post by woqued on Mar 5, 2020 3:05:46 GMT
TLDR: Just me explaining my thought processes on coming up with sets. If you don't care, skip these walls of text. If you think it might be interesting or helpful, go on - but it is a bit rambly. Ok. I expected the other 3, but not as much the +19 nat. I don't think we want to end up in the same old scenario where amulets don't get used because XR amulets randomize higher than the base set's are made on. Very few set amulets saw any use due to that problem on BUR tier, outside Strongheart which was obviously out of this discussion anyway. XR shouldn't be different, although 1 ac is both relatively and objectively less than the old 16-17 ac amulets fighting BUR 18s since XRs have already raised the bar both on gear and subraces, so 1 ac is relatively less important (but still super important). The Toss + a replacement for Asmodeus belt for melee types that don't get to stack a lot of STR and DEX was my starting point for the amulet. That meant Implosion & Stat checks. The Vacuum, RG, Tossing immunity and KD immunity were "mostly" thematic slams to try to figure out here what the perceived power for the future set items lie from dev point of view, and how wide the gap is between (this particular player, me and the dev). New variant and more realistic, closer to original idea as well would then be this: Amulet of Grounding +18*grmble Nat AC Cannot be tossed special +4 STR Checks +4 DEX Checks Spell Immunity: Implosion Physical Immunity: 5% All Phys DR 30/- all Saving Throws: Universal +8 Saving Throws: Reflexes +15 Saving Throws: Traps +15 Removed half the properties and the item still looks quite strong due to the plode+toss+checks. Comparing to XR amulets the most direct contender would be this: - wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Remains_Constant . - - Losses: you (potentially) lose 1 ac, phys imms, dr + whatever randomizes, the +16 stats, skills, kd & mind imms and the augmenter on top. - - Gains: plode + stat checks + toss immunity. Yep, still might be too stacked. Or rather, indeed the properties are very heavy on this. Toss immunity and asmo belt replacement at same time is a too tough to ask from an amulet, I reckon - even if I think the concept is cool. If those are kept, other properties might end up too low to make it feasible to use. Then there's the point were the tossing and str/dex checks overlap a little bit in what they do - str/dex checks might put you in "immune to tosses" realm on their own - or you might be on a levitating race, or you just like to use a swapper item for toss immunity when it's needed over using a permanent choice and paying for it considering it's not all that common, just super annoying when it's around if you aren't immune. I think this provides a window to the thought processes behind my thinking at least (others may approach differently): first there is an idea of what I want on a class, which turns into what I want on an item relative to other slots or potential item combinations - then I try to make it work thematically - and the slot which it ends up being is narrowed down by either very useful items for those classes. Reasoning for item slot choice: Amulet was the best option due to least "really important item in this slot" -competition for Melees and Castertanks, and has generally quite compareable or higher stats to belts. Boots? no breach/mord/vestige/slot/harper boots (so instant no boots ok, those are too valuable), Cloaks? DivPower/vestige/BattleCleric cloak; rather not, too many key items for the classes intended to use this but it is an option due to this potentially opening asmo belt out for div power belt, but it lowers the potential. Helm? Too many cool specials and sets already in existence. Armors? Tough, because the cha/wis crew is so spread among different armor types from robes to mediums, heck even heavy armors so instant decline. Gloves? Gloves don't pack enough stats in general to fit all this stuff in, and we want to open asmo belt to be able to wear vestige/asmo/ranger gloves + a caster belt or div power belt in the first place. Amulet competition? no good spellslot amulets in existence for melee types compared to other slots;and melee Bards can still use bard armors with this, and the power of this doesn't complement common Bard asmo artifacts like Asmodeus Shield; which would provide more gearing variance for caster Bards as well. => Let's go with amulet.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 5, 2020 3:12:17 GMT
I may have an unrealistic take on AC given randomizations, but even so, giving out max-ac with those other things...yeah. Funky
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Post by woqued on Mar 5, 2020 3:27:17 GMT
I'll note that the armor suggestions as well are still drafts: they haven't been peer reviewed - before you take them to the team as anything close to finalized products.. Hence, this thread and not the other one. (Though I wouldn't have posted them if I didn't think they are cool, I try to do that much at least).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2020 16:35:41 GMT
So, how do you see set loot from Mechanus comparing to XRs or want it to be? Woqued brings up a fantastic point about necks and their AC. There are tons of items that aren’t even competitive with stock BURs that just don’t get used as a result.
I recognize an Uber randomized item will always beat a set barring an amazing special, but, where do you want these to stack up? On par with a randomized, but stock version of an XR? Better? Worse?
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Post by chainlink on Mar 5, 2020 16:57:07 GMT
I guess Vacuum survival may be added to some existing items (or possibly some new ones introduced) or there won't be many people venturing there unless they have the Gith Precursor xR subrace, will the existing Planewalker race have it added?
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 5, 2020 21:43:39 GMT
So, how do you see set loot from Mechanus comparing to XRs or want it to be? Woqued brings up a fantastic point about necks and their AC. There are tons of items that aren’t even competitive with stock BURs that just don’t get used as a result. I recognize an Uber randomized item will always beat a set barring an amazing special, but, where do you want these to stack up? On par with a randomized, but stock version of an XR? Better? Worse? Ideally I'd like them to compete by offering things that XRs do not, on gear that makes wearing them viable, and better at least situationally. 'Always better' is difficult to sustain for long, and we're constrained by the engine. We have three whole level tiers between now and the endgame. Limbo was statted as 60-65, average level 63. By contrast, Father Llymic will be 70-75, average 72. The EEs walk up to 80 from there, and there's still a 65-70 range to fill in. Funky
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Post by woqued on Mar 5, 2020 22:19:36 GMT
But coming up with things that have properties that XRs do not means they have to be megastacked or take significant amounts of time/effort to make work (flashbacks to Set items that do not work, scripting issues and whatnot).
Perhaps we could have more Activate to gain a cool spell/defensive feature -type items. Kinda like the mini-shunt robes from Hells, various Mantle-casting items; sources of EV/Disp/Mantle for classes that have limited CL in those schools and so on - but upgraded to Paragon standards. I tried that with the armors I posted before for the Mage one at least.
What do you guys think, do the Armors I posted earlier compete with the stuff your mages are wearing; Would you be happy to find those? What about the Barbarian medium armour? Maybe I should type them in with 100% accuracy as to how they would be displayed in game, and in their own posts in the other thread for easier reading?
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 6, 2020 1:00:39 GMT
But coming up with things that have properties that XRs do not means they have to be megastacked or take significant amounts of time/effort to make work (flashbacks to Set items that do not work, scripting issues and whatnot). No, they don't. Think +2 SR or DC to Banish, for example. I'm open to this, though they present different problems. Funky
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2020 4:34:19 GMT
RE: Sorc / Wiz
Make it +2 Spell Penetration and I love it. I also would rather drop the 10% to each element and bump the magic up a bit higher. I like the idea here. Hands down. BUR giving +1 spell pen, XR / Paragon starting at +2 is fair, the bonus here plus the augmenters we have talked about in another thread really start to get you some of the oomph that has been lacking.
RE: Cleric Light Armor
I love this piece too. Add some parry and it's fantastic. A piece like this really gets me excited because on our limbo runs my cleric really became a "Support". Spamming UEFs, prayers, GRs, mass heals, and various buffs to keep the tanks going. It's the first time I ever experienced being a true healer in HG and it was incredible. I think a piece like this could support that and I am all about it. Just add parry.
RE: Barbarian Armor
Make the physical imms 5% higher, and the resistances 5/- higher, and add craft weapon. I think this piece would then compete with the XR as mentioned by Funky above. Where it's a true alternative, not a downgrade with a nice special.
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