Addressing Limbo's Slogginess

[FunkySwerve]

Mar 4, 2020 17:37:18 GMT woqued said:

How about introducing an Augmenter that grants +2 banish pen, non-stacking with others of the same augmenter? Middle-ground choice, and much stronger but takes an augmenter slot. Basically a droppable ego, but much more specific than an Ego so less universally OP. Yes, it is very, very strong. But it also gives us a huge reason to run something and gives gearing a whole new realm of options - and more competition.

Same principle could be introduced elsewhere, and if we create - say - 8 different similar augmenters on this drop location for different things, they would be quite the endgame chaser. Not sure I like the idea of 8, I'd prefer 4 in two different drop locations, but that would be a harder sell.

I like this a lot. If we're going to do them as set loot, though, I would need at least 3, preferably 5 comparables.

Thanks,
Funky

[woqued]

Spell Pen on Banish and Unname (Antisummon, Arcanes & Cleric, Druid)

DC on Defoliate (highly spammed in the zones where it's prevalent, Druid)

Spell Pen on Prayer/Wail of Doom/Battletide (Savedroppers for Bard & Cleric)

... Come to mind quick. Enablers, not finishers and all operate as "smootheners", lubricants if you may - not straight up winner abilities. Your party still needs the capacity to deal with whatever both before and after these. That's 6 abilities right there. Not sure if these would reeeeeeeeeally fit in the gear setup in the end, but as run specific ones? Definitely. I'm not sure if it's worth making them super rare and they probably shouldn't serve as THE chase item in an endgame run due to them being class restricted situational stuff... Except for the save droppers anyway. Those are neat. 

Other options that often need to land on a scary target often far away so lacking in dropping mechnaisms and can be difficult to land in general: Bigby 9 (Arcane) Heartbane (Cleric) Cast in Stone (Druid). Maybe even Bestow Curse (Arcanes, Bard) to have it land saves more often  - but that's still mostly a pariah/pale master tool and they aren't lacking too much in the SP / DC departments.

[FunkySwerve]

Thanks! Can you give me a sample of the three tiers you talked about wrt Banish? Curious to know what you would consider to be a good R/UR/Set aug. For all 6, really, though that would be more of a time commitment.

Thanks,
Funky

[Deleted]

I think we don’t bother with lower tier augs. You solely create the top tier thing and make them drops in a run. 3 in limbo, 3 in Mechanus.

[woqued]

Mar 4, 2020 23:40:39 GMT @prepared said:

I think we don’t bother with lower tier augs. You solely create the top tier thing and make them drops in a run. 3 in limbo, 3 in Mechanus.

You think, who? Which are the lower tier augs? Commanding officer Prepared please contribute in a specific fashion, do not order in an unclear way. 

Edit: I'm just dumb I think. I completely missed Funkys previous post so this seemed really out of place and when I scrolled up I missed it again Sorry. Leaving my brainfart here anyway

[woqued]

Mar 4, 2020 22:51:37 GMT FunkySwerve said:

Thanks! Can you give me a sample of the three tiers you talked about wrt Banish? Curious to know what you would consider to be a good R/UR/Set aug. For all 6, really, though that would be more of a time commitment.

Thanks,
Funky

As per what Prepared said, I don't think I would go multiple tiers at all. Simply a Set aug, one of each for +2. If you really want to start sporting and creating a lot of items or adding them into the general pool... Seems like a huge hassle honestly. I don't know how strong they should be if there were multiple tiers, 2 seems like such a sweet spot. +1 bonus for just one spell? MEEEEEEH. +3? Seems almost too strong... 

Edit: If anything, you could create an UR version and Set version specific to DC and SP separately, that might work. In that case I would put Spellpen as the Set loot and DC as the rare/UR loot - Spell Pen is more crucial in the fun section and is harder to deal with. There are simply less tools and they are mandatory.

[Deleted]

+3 would be fine but that would need to be a small percentage drop, I think that would be fun to have a small percentage drop "up'd" version of an item like this, or maybe tie the "up'd" versions to a special random that can spawn or something.

+2 accomplishes the goal, +3 is a carrot for the guy to look forward to as he keeps grinding the run for his buddies or canos or whatever.



I agree with Woqued on set versus / UR loot. An alternative I have considered for this is what about a mote? Make these motes.


+16 to any two stats (pickable by the player and only if we limit to one mote per player. If we let players have two motes, Pelor + a ability / spell mote, remove stats)
+2 SP and +2 DC to the given spell / ability
+5 to a skill (rotatable, inside the +50 cap)

I think with the failed XR motes this could add some more flavor / competition back to the slot / allow for two motes total (1 Pelor / 1 to boost SP + DC of a spell / ability)

[woqued]

Yeah, as an extra rare carrot +2 -> +3 upgrade miiight be ok.. Feels iffy. Then again I just never have it in me to be THAT grindy so envy strikes! - I just don't play enough in the end, but I'm not the target audience in that case anyway and that's just something for me to accept. It is quite common in games now to provide an item from either a rare or guaranteed but from a relatively hard source to do the job - and then there is an uber rare to make it that extra notch better for those who play significantly more (or get lucky).

+3 just looks like such a big number. Suddenly jumping from potential 72 to 75 sp... Ok, on second thought that sounds amazing. Goooo! (Note: it still won't land on even muds that aren't nb'd; and even nb'd greater grey's are a pain in the fokken bum to land on unless bard with persuade is a GOD). Whether it makes something like Elysium too easy is another question... But then again it's paragon gear in lowbie zone, XR weapons did scarier things to that place so in this league of big boys...

[FunkySwerve]

Mar 5, 2020 3:17:36 GMT woqued said:

+3 just looks like such a big number. Suddenly jumping from potential 72 to 75 sp... Ok, on second thought that sounds amazing. Goooo! (Note: it still won't land on even muds that aren't nb'd; and even nb'd greater grey's are a pain in the fokken bum to land on unless bard with persuade is a GOD). Whether it makes something like Elysium too easy is another question... But then again it's paragon gear in lowbie zone, XR weapons did scarier things to that place so in this league of big boys...

I was thinking about your amulet suggestion, and it occurred to me there might be one way I would consider implementing such an item (in its original form). Not sure it's worth it, though. We could create a class of unique items, of which only one of each could exist throughout the servers. If a new character found the same item, the previous holder would lose theirs on next login. Thoughts?

Funky

[Methes]

Mar 5, 2020 4:07:14 GMT FunkySwerve said:

Mar 5, 2020 3:17:36 GMT woqued said:

+3 just looks like such a big number. Suddenly jumping from potential 72 to 75 sp... Ok, on second thought that sounds amazing. Goooo! (Note: it still won't land on even muds that aren't nb'd; and even nb'd greater grey's are a pain in the fokken bum to land on unless bard with persuade is a GOD). Whether it makes something like Elysium too easy is another question... But then again it's paragon gear in lowbie zone, XR weapons did scarier things to that place so in this league of big boys...

I was thinking about your amulet suggestion, and it occurred to me there might be one way I would consider implementing such an item (in its original form). Not sure it's worth it, though. We could create a class of unique items, of which only one of each could exist throughout the servers. If a new character found the same item, the previous holder would lose theirs on next login. Thoughts?

Funky

I'd vote no for several reasons:
1) producing a lot of frustration - you finally got it to drop after months of grinding only to be randomly taken away the next day if odds are not in your favor? After doing 26:2 Pyramid runs I'd say no thank you.
2) can't rely on the item. When losing it upon login everytime you crash midgame you could lose it. Would have to be until server reset but still number 1) applies.

[Deleted]

That would feel awful. No thank you.

[woqued]

Mar 5, 2020 4:07:14 GMT FunkySwerve said:

Mar 5, 2020 3:17:36 GMT woqued said:

+3 just looks like such a big number. Suddenly jumping from potential 72 to 75 sp... Ok, on second thought that sounds amazing. Goooo! (Note: it still won't land on even muds that aren't nb'd; and even nb'd greater grey's are a pain in the fokken bum to land on unless bard with persuade is a GOD). Whether it makes something like Elysium too easy is another question... But then again it's paragon gear in lowbie zone, XR weapons did scarier things to that place so in this league of big boys...

I was thinking about your amulet suggestion, and it occurred to me there might be one way I would consider implementing such an item (in its original form). Not sure it's worth it, though. We could create a class of unique items, of which only one of each could exist throughout the servers. If a new character found the same item, the previous holder would lose theirs on next login. Thoughts?

Funky

I think such a mechanic would better suit events; i.e if you had recurring events, the winners get amazing items - say, top 5 players get one of 5 different uncharacteristically powerful items that they get to keep until the next event and so on, but that would require quite a bit of dev attention over a longer period of time. But it could make for a fun event or even create some traditions. Not sure it's worth the hassle though. Gearing can be quite the meticulous process and it changing upon reasons that aren't of your own doing or within your agency seems like a cesspool.

[Deleted]

Scratch the +3 if you want, I like carrots though even with low drop rates. Opinions on making these items motes?

[FunkySwerve]

I don't see why we would. Was curious why you mentioned them, though.

Funky