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Post by desocupado on Aug 20, 2020 0:27:33 GMT
This just a random thing I always thought. Removing pure builds open up more build diversity than having carrots to pure builds.
That aside nearly all quasiclasses casters became somewhat obsolete due karsus, quasiclasses non-magical damage output classes overshadowed by viable two handers.
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Post by zentraxius on Aug 20, 2020 1:20:27 GMT
yeah.. bane knight, hellfire knight, staffmaster, seem really poor to me
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Post by desocupado on Aug 20, 2020 4:26:41 GMT
Strength casters also seem to be pointless in practice. (bad dc, unimpressive spell books, bad stats)
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Post by Methes on Aug 20, 2020 4:59:27 GMT
BaneKnight and Staffmasters have been buffed recently due to the weapon buffing nerf.
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Post by tomaan on Aug 20, 2020 16:32:35 GMT
BaneKnight and Staffmasters have been buffed recently due to the weapon buffing nerf. Still not enough to compete with a 2-hander. And while I don't have numbers, it's hard to see how a Bane Knight with nerfed Div. Might and +2d damage could out-perform a divine tank with fighter (i.e. weapon specialization) splash and 1.5x CHA modifier.
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Post by gladi8or on Sept 6, 2020 21:42:45 GMT
I don't know if this has been suggested yet, but while playing an assassin with assassin blade today, it made me think that fist monks could really use something like mortal strike to make them more viable to play. Consider a "holy punch" that would give the same affect as mortal strike via fortitude save. Perhaps this is obtained by a certain number of monk levels rather than honing.
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Post by johannhowitzer on Sept 8, 2020 12:19:46 GMT
Fist Monk - I saw something recently that seemed cool about monks playing with Stunning Fist. If this isn't widely used in the endgame due to immunity, perhaps a way could be found to let them use it against certain mobs, a stunning tank sounds fantastic and fun.
Monks could accumulate a list as they gain monk levels, and enemies need ALL of the immunities on that list, or they're not immune to the stun. I don't have a table of unusual mob immunities in front of me, but let's propose a control class monk build using fist. Below monk level X, they just have mind immunity on the list. Then at X, they add paralysis. Then at Y, they add critical hits. Then pure, add entangle or something. So at pure, a mob would need all four of those immunities. And since a stunned target is easy to hit, they help their own damage and their party at the same time with this ability. Maybe 4-5 rounds, so the target can't just be ignored and move on, whole enemy parties can't be stunned en masse, and there's an incentive for the monk's friends to take advantage of the stun window for easy hits before the target wakes back up.
Bloodfire / Dragonstorm - Give them more abilities that aren't dealing direct damage, that still fit the theme of fully mastering one chosen element. Most or all sources of fire/elec damage also inflict stacking vulnerability to that element, toward a limit, and never going below 0% immunity. This opens up their one damage type to more enemies a bit, without upping their already high signature element.
Also, give them a party-support defensive ability, by turning their Elemental Shield into a partywide buff that mitigates kickback from their elements, or decreases the effect of inflictions, or both. Maybe split those two effects into two spells.
Give Detonate an Energy Drain-like side effect, which maxes out the caster's infliction on that target, and grants the caster benefits of Energy Drain when enemy fails save. So if Firebrand could normally give -5% to Fire immunity per cast, up to -30%, Detonate immediately gives them -30%. Dragonstorm would need something comparable, maybe for Dragonstorm, Detonate becomes an electrical version, call it Power Surge or something, explode enemy's body with a massive charge of electricity, then the drain effect could be shared. I know these things can be limited by available visual effects, though.
Make summons shorter-duration invincible but dispellable Black Blades, that instead of attacking in melee, pulse a touch attack on their target each round for fire/div or elec/pos. Maybe last for 10-20 rounds, and damage is based on summon spell level, so 9 is average supplemental damage to the caster's spells, while 1 barely does any damage at all. This is like a damage over time spell, but instead of ending when the target dies, it can move on and continue attacking another enemy. And while I can't speak to Heralds entirely, there's a potential idea to help them out, too, when parties are moving too fast.
Staffmaster - More spellcasting would make this really fun, and I'm a fan of utility and options over raw numbers. I'm also a fan of spreading out the "core" jobs to more classes to encourage party flexibility. What if Staffmasters got a special version of some spells, that would add an onhit effect to their staff for a short duration?
Bigby 9 could add an onhit Bigby 9 for a few rounds, Bigby 8 could add some meaty extra physical damage for a bit, Bigby 5 adds onhit Bigby 5, bla bla suddenly Staffy's a clutch potential Rak-wrangler, has a burst damage option, and has a bit more of a reason to wear some slot gear. Greater Dispel could be an onhit Greater Dispel. They love putting magic in their staff, let them put more magic in their staff.
Bane Knight - I love this concept, melee with support caster abilities, and I think it can be taken further. My ideas for Staffmaster kinda encroach on BK's niche, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, as long as it isn't 100% overlap. So let's give Bane Knights an AOE Bestow Curse, maybe about the size of Nature's Balance but centered on their target. Also, like the BFM/DSM idea, their Mestil's Acid Sheath (and maybe Shadow Shield too?) would have a similar defensive effect for the party, reducing acid kickback and mitigating acid infliction. As their intimidating presence would suggest, give them a bonus to Banishment / Dismissal checks. Add Assay Resistance to their arsenal, but make it apply to the party for that one enemy, for only a few rounds, thus helping land some important effect, but if you want it to genuinely be a good DPS increase, you have to keep applying it.
Dragon Disciple - Give the breath an infliction, like the shifter wyrmlings, and whenever they use the breath, some of the damage of that type lingers on their weapon (they breathed on their claws too), giving a boost to that die for a few rounds. This can give more reason to use flavors other than licorice and sour apple.
No idea how difficult it would be to implement, but for critical immunity, how about a percent reduction scaling based on number of melee opponents? So against one enemy, little to nothing, but if you're surrounded by eight enemies, near-crit immune. This could make it a strong incentive for a dragon to take on as many enemies as possible, I don't know how this fits with the class fantasy, but I think it's a nice deviation from the on-demand crit immunity of other classes. For this crit resistance, you have to get your claws dirty. Scaled logarithmically, so you get a big uptick to immunity as you go to 2, 3, 4 enemies, while the improvement is more gradual the higher you go, for diminishing returns.
At the end of the day, leveling the damage playing field across all builds is neither interesting nor practical. How do you keep builds other than the topmost damaging build relevant and attractive, without making their damage equal? Give them other useful things to do. Expand their niche. Greater variety of options is always more interesting than straight increase in numbers.
World of Warcraft grappled with this problem for years with the talent system - many talent (tech tree) options were just number sticks. They shifted from version to version, eventually settling on a system that worked surprisingly well, despite still falling into the minmaxing trap for high-end raiding - they implemented a system with almost no number sticks, almost entirely cool usable abilities, or optional changes to existing abilities. And you know what? Even though plenty of people still just followed cookie cutter builds with slightly higher output, many players favored builds because they fit their playstyles better, to great effect.
One prime example... in my guild, I played a paladin. Tier six of the tank talents has 1) a passive party heal, 2) a size increase to the tank's personal damage-reduction zone, and 3) a cone effect behind the paladin that reduces incoming damage to party members. Sites still describe #3 as the worst option, but I used it regularly - we even used it in a very fun, dangerous fast boss strategy.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Sept 9, 2020 15:03:42 GMT
Fist Monk - I saw something recently that seemed cool about monks playing with Stunning Fist. If this isn't widely used in the endgame due to immunity, perhaps a way could be found to let them use it against certain mobs, a stunning tank sounds fantastic and fun. I haven't had time to read your whole post yet - apologies. I will say that the meta for Mechanus is a lot fewer immunities and somewhat higher saves. There are 129 creatures with an insta-kill of some kind, and 130 with a disable vuln of some kind. Many or most of those have multiple vulnerabiliites. Funky
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