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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2020 17:56:09 GMT
A piece like this really gets me excited because on our limbo runs my cleric really became a "Support". Spamming UEFs, prayers, GRs, mass heals, and various buffs to keep the tanks going. It's the first time I ever experienced being a true healer in HG and it was incredible. I think a piece like this could support that and I am all about it. Just add parry. Ideally this is an experience I woudld like to preserve in future areas. Atropros should not be a problem (and I'm not saying why, but fear not, it's Evil), but other areas may be. What about the run is making this a necessary role. Obviously lots of damage, but... ? May want to stick in another thread depending on how complicated the answer is. Funky To answer the above, Manuka and I, and the Profiteers as a group because of the two of us changed how we started playing HG which changed in some respects how the party needed to operate and all of this came as a result of Limbo. The runs were a slog. How we run Limbo is we mass every single map, we spawn the entire map in GS, and then cast Drawmij's Preclusion to pull the entire map to us but mobs with mantles, and fight the entire map in one epic fight. It eliminated all of the caster spawns because none of the casters were there. If a tank died, he immediately needed rebuffing. If a tank stopped bashing to pop a heal, it slowed us down. Our clerics / druids became true supports where we were slotting GRs and heals, Endure Elements, Monstrous Regeneration, Regenation, Protection From Elements, UEFs, Mass Camos, Fonts, etc. And both roles functioned almost exclusively in support roles. Why spam Pesticide to kill all the mobs when you can wear a 1/2 KB item and bash them? Everything we did was geared toward maximum up-time for the tanks. This mindset works in all areas of the mod because we followed suit elsewhere. Mass the map, or just rambo it with tanks and the cleric and / or druid would keep them going. We would do 3 maps of the Abyss on a single rest. This play-style started well before we had all of the uber gear too, which is what really created the need for the support and then because it was just such a different experience we both happened to enjoy, we stuck with it. I don't think HG as a whole is set-up to really capture a true healer / support role without dramatic changes. Everyone having an unlimited beaker and grapes / pearls makes it hard. It also depends on the pace you wanna play too. A caster party can do this just as easily as tanks depending on the run which would still require the support / healer, you just need really talented multi-boxers or way more active players to cover every role. A run which inhibits the frequency heal potions specifically, not spells can be spammed is an idea, and / or limiting the frequency of use of grapes. You have to question with a small population though if you want to take that much control away from the individual to save themselves or not. This is the crux of it. With the Profiteers, we were all highly capable players and we knew we could trust the jobs would get done from the others so when your health dropped to 5% you knew the heal was coming. It would force a lot of players to relearn how they play HG. A key difference in our Clerics versus most peoples now are we kept them genuine caster clerics, even with a reduced DC because they could also offer so much save drop, we want to still get the HB's or the implosions if needed. A lot of the support clerics running around are meatshields with cleric buffs which our tanks already did for us, so we kept the DCs as high as possible. Currently in HG, regardless of your class, and assuming a somewhat decent party composition for the run being done, can ensure you NEVER die, if you wanted. A player can heal themselves, a player can restore themselves, if you're given a rage, if you spam click or run far enough away you avoid blindly running in until clarity comes, etc. You'd have to take some of the self-service. I don't think any experience on HG I have had has topped my being a support cleric though, I just personally love that and get a lot of enjoyment out of it.
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Post by woqued on Mar 6, 2020 17:59:07 GMT
Yes, you guys coined the support cleric/druid massing meta I'm sure
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 6, 2020 21:38:06 GMT
Thanks, that helps. Out of curiosity, how were you using regen? Just to keep hp up?
Funky
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Post by desocupado on Mar 6, 2020 22:05:57 GMT
To become a true support you'd need a druid-cleric "theurge" with druid epics.
But doesn't a bard feel support enough for you?
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Post by chirality on Mar 7, 2020 17:52:07 GMT
But doesn't a bard feel support enough for you? Yeah like ... what? Is that not what bard literally already does? (and on top of that it gets so much hate for being that role?)
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Post by desocupado on Mar 7, 2020 20:15:58 GMT
Multiple life threaders, like 3+ accomplish that keeping tanks healthy while wearing down hordes of enemies even better - specially with the automatic restoration they got three days ago. Even tanky builds (i.e. low wisdom and Cleric 25+) can work well on that regard. At least they could bring Guird, IoF and Aegis by themselves.
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Post by MurphysLawAgain on Mar 10, 2020 6:30:29 GMT
When the hells opened for business, that was the order of the day. We had healer clerics & druids. It massively helped all the way down to Nessus. The real shift started with loggers, and people worrying about how many kills they got. Clerics became evil (for heartbane) and became killing machines. People getting used to the runs (they used massed packs of heals instead of beakers) also allowed clerics to provide less support.
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Post by Paradoom on Mar 10, 2020 10:57:34 GMT
That pretty much is what I expected to happen if you focus on healing. I remember nessus boss fights, when the cleric stayed in gs and just healed and gr'ed left and right. Those are one of the smoothes fights I can remember. Similer XP I had when I was in Limbo with my DWD and the Cleric kept me under his Guard. I was able to really fulfill the role of the Aggrotank and get anything focused on me while the rest of the group could focus on getting the mobs down. Not always the quickset route but effective and controlled.
When I fly solo boxing I always grant my tanks regen buffs, as it helps alot with staying alive.
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Post by horbag on Mar 10, 2020 12:16:37 GMT
as someone who on every server mained a cleric i know the satisfaction it can give when you manage to keep the whole group topped up and going, however here you can not just do so, even at a pelor fight they depend on a cleric not only to keep pelor alive but to plode the winds, banish whatever you can aswell witch makes it a lot harder to just focus on the supporting role.
also not a lot of tanks know the saying: "keep the healer alive" so it is hard to just slot all your spells with supporting and healing spells, even now each time i have to slot more this and more that and take care of this and that on top of all the killing witch reduced my healing capability even more
i would LOVE a run where healing clerics are wanted/needed as that is still one of my favorite things to do
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Post by Methes on Mar 10, 2020 12:23:40 GMT
As Funky mentioned elsewhere, having a run where healing potions are limited by a timer would potentially increase the importance of: Cleric/Druid healers, Lifethreaders, Divine Slingers, Pariahs, Undead shifter forms, Conjuration foci (regen), Vampirism weapon bonus maybe if it works correctly and is high enough, possibly others I can't think of atm.
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Post by simpetar on Mar 10, 2020 13:59:18 GMT
a run where healing potions are limited Oh I am sure Gremlins in Limbo would love to make an acquaintance with you
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Post by desocupado on Mar 10, 2020 14:02:28 GMT
I don't get it though.
As a cleric I always cast extended GR when someone is rezed (and use divine grace as well), if someone is low on health I tend to throw a gr too. Depending on the run, if I have heal memorized I throw those on tanks, if I have nothing to kill, but most of time it's just a matter of having enough GR.
As a druid paragon abjuration offers incredible healing, as does immute indirectly.
If you are a bard grab UMD and use a healing flag to spam it.
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Post by woqued on Mar 10, 2020 14:29:33 GMT
Guys stop saying healing/support clerics aren't needed or something in current runs, they are extremely strong and always have been - the only thing the class lacks is boss killing capacity on their own but they do a hell of a job making it easier for others. If the runs have any sort of 1. infliction 2. constant damage 3. scary offense 4. ANYTHING threatening, at all 5. Anything that needs its' saves dropped and doesn't have insane SR 6. +16 needs - Cleric is tied for the best class in the game with the other top dogs.
In fact I'd go out of my way to say things like Erad should be removed cuz it's too dumb. Both too strong and too dumb, mostly too dumb. "Yes! Finally got a challenging rare monster!" and some -bleep- just removes it - nope, that guy never happened - and you do another boring as -family friendly words- run same as the 15 times before. Excluding Chaos Rocs, those are just bleergh and deserving of eradicate. Screw those birds.
If you don't want to play an offensive DC cleric, don't. It's not needed, you can play a support Cleric and have wide shoulders for carrying the run. It just has to be played properly with btide/prayer/distraction, fast pt2 for pickups, RD/RC/BE for others and not have some backline humping miracle spamming afkbot.
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Post by desocupado on Mar 10, 2020 17:29:22 GMT
Is it possible to log both how much you healed and restored something on others? And also GR time.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Mar 10, 2020 18:25:51 GMT
It's possible, sure. Might be kind of spammy. You think it's worth doing as a carrot to reward that behavior?
Funky
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