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Post by desocupado on Apr 13, 2020 11:18:33 GMT
Given turning also have a save, is there any reason to give paragon enemies any turn resistance bonus?
I mean 1 TR point at paragon 2 could do the trick.
Given a 50% turn-kill chance that already reduced the chance to 3/8.
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Post by simpetar on Apr 13, 2020 11:41:59 GMT
Given turning also have a save, is there any reason to give paragon enemies any turn resistance bonus? The same goes for spells: first SR, then DC.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2020 13:25:19 GMT
With all this work going into turners I really think the ego needs to be addressed. Way too much power is in the ego which needs to be put back into the class and some other functionality needs to be placed on the ego. A turner ego is required. It’s in the same boat as the AA, just a lot worse due to how much is missing from the class and on the ego.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 19, 2020 19:56:14 GMT
Next update will have paragons only scaling up by 2 TR per paragon tier.
Funky
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Post by chirality on Apr 19, 2020 23:28:39 GMT
That sounds great but unfortunately it doesn't address the actual issues (which isn't that paragon mob TR is too high)
more like:
-spawn compositions that scale toward bigger and badder enemies punish turners unduly, by nerfing their trash-removal and CC niche right when they need it most--the deeper into tough spawns classes go, the more highly-prized is the instakiller's efficiency at their role; unfortunately, unlike every other class, turners actually become *worse* at their job, the harder the spawn gets. doubly so, even; not only does un-killable high-TR mobs reduce the potential pool of insta-able lower-TR trash that is able to be killed at any given turn, but also makes them less effective at CC as well, by similarly reducing the pool of non-instable-but-stunnable trash that can be affected! imagine if a sorc casting cold ball dealt less cold damage and had a smaller aoe, the more PFs were in the spawn! or imagine if casting CoD counted death immune targets for the HD cap? that's what turners are faced with. imagine if you can't kill a quasit with cod because the marilith and the balor standing next to it are absorbing the CoD target hit die pool. so whether or not a a leet quasit can be CoD or not, isn't the question, if even a normal one can't be CoD until the other mobs nearby are killed or removed
-construct domain is worthless (easily fixed as best as possible, as mentioned+approved above, reminder, this is still going to be done as well right? the kb check before constructs are damaged?)
-turner base TP is too low (hence overinflated artificial necessity of ego), or at any rate the numbers for the Hit Die : Turning Power equation need to be adjusted
-weak foundational system (base TP/TL, domain leveladds/yesorno check) forces reliance on exotic specialty items (again, ego too) that offer cool functionality, which should actually be allowed at a base character option level (i mean seriously if anything, the goofy "wear this crap item to get the feat" domain should be construct--hey, mechanus item idea)
-not enough "turner spells" (turner luvrs like myself love to advertise the niche uses, but let's be honest, as "gud" as they are, the ubiquity of abj/ench on all 4 cores now, has led to a far less "niche" role for turner on these spells; some more should be in order, even if they're more supportish)
-the BG evil requirement is dumb and should be deleted, it never made sense from anything but a RP/flavor standpoint (i lied, it doesn't even make sense there considering how good/evil domains and outsider turning works anyway), and it's horribly punishing considering how every class level a turner has is more precious than any other class' caster level, due to the turning system
-the extreme reliance on domains makes any build decisions related to feat allotment into essentially non-choices; in other words, human with the extra feat, PL extra feats, subraces with extra feats, now unlike other casters or cores or tanks that are simply "not as good" without as many feats to spend on spell foci or whatever, turners aren't just "not as good" at turning without the right domain feat, they just literally don't hit the "you must be this tall" entry barrier and fail. there is no other class in the game that is crippled by a simplistic "you must have this level to affect this mob or you can't" gate; SRs can be debuffed, saves, ac can be reduced, a turner has 2 questions: do i have the levels? do i have the feat? if the answer is no then oh well.
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