Hello, if possible, plx change the way hell tags are achieved to be possible in any order.
This seems like more of a hinderance than a challenge, it doesn't add game difficulty just organizational problems.
Here are some super reasons why this change would be most awesome and beneficial to all, may even improve everyone's career and love life:
Helpers get the possibility to "tag" on a helper run. Less of the common "i could do malad but need malb first" Increases the chance of tagging on "any" shouted/forming hell run, more incentive to form & join (or so my crystal ball tells me)
you got to get passed the first layer before going to the second, seems normal and logical to keep it this way.
everyone just got to be less focused on the tag and just help and wait till the run you need is called... i mention it sometimes just in case (mainly for lower hells) but that doesn't keep me from helping and it shouldn't keep you from helping eater
Well. There is the fact that progressing in this game requires hundreds and thousands of hours. Then there is a technicality reason that makes you not progress when helping others. That technicality could not exist.
Some of us don't have hundreds and thousands of hours to spend. Some of us end up being turned off the game because doing endless helper runs for no benefit gets old. Some of us would like to use the little time we have doing both progressing and helping. Maybe there's a reality where those two evenings you have free from other obligations in a week could also progress you in the game you love and simply not progress just because you are two layers behind your friends.
But I guess we just need to be less focused on the tag and do another couple thousand hours for no progression, cuz we all have that time laying around. Because of a technicality. Alrighty! Oh wait, I could also just not log on and spend my time elsewhere, where I am actually progressing when having fun with my friends.
Baneknights would be balanced if they could splash paladin. -Caeha Everyone should stop using the same portrait so I can GR them better, damnit. -Caeha
This idea VERY much has my vote even as I have been on innumerable helper hell runs. The biggest detraction to this game's enjoyability is how much of a huge time sink it is. This would line up more with the way you can run any abyss layer. It has nothing to do with wanting to help less and everything to do with common sense.
A decent compromise could entail the first demi cycle being ordered and the subsequent cycles being open to tagging out of order.
We now have the infrastructure set up for this, if we wanted to do it this way.
To the OP:
Clearly this idea is popular, and we could do it, but I'd like to hear a little more about what effects you would anticipate this change having, both good and bad. One issue I can think of is we would have to redo the hell skull to require the tag. Not a big deal, but things like this tend to have problematic side effects, so if I'm going to contemplate doing it, I'd like some idea what they might be.
Oh please YES! As already mentioned for the time poor the order requirement makes it largely a choice of making no progress and helping others or trying to get the run going that you need, usually to be told need this and that first. Also an aside - Porting to workshop directly from docks. Possible? Must have come up before in the past?
Food for thought here, but the tag system from 1-40 is set up as a progression that increases in difficulty. The LL tags have somewhat of a progression as well, you must have Dustbone before Sissy before Thids. The other LL runs are not needed in any order, but they also don't lead to anything other than simply the tag. DB, Siss and Thids lead to Hells. Doesn't something as imperative to the game such as Demigod status deserve a progressive order which increases in difficulty? Tia is a cake walk compared to Nessus. If the order of hell tags becomes removed you're still going to have people all over the board with tags needing something different unless, as many do now, you form a party together and tag together. There will still be pick-up parties and people going along for hell runs as helpers who already have the tag. I personally don't see this change making a real big difference.
Tia should still be the entry point because you get the skull there. Nessus would still need to be the last layer accomplished to get demi status on completion. I see people still saving cania towards the end because... Cania... I'm wondering how writs would work.
It may end up a wash on whether it's a more likeable process and people may still need to help others with tags. I don't think that's a bad thing. But the flexibility lends toward more game play freedom.
1) The initial cycle on any character should be in order, Tia-Nessus. Keeps with the lore. I like this. 2) Subsequent cycles can be done in any order is preferred. A) Can it truly be done in any order? Can I end my cycle on Tia and get my tag? Or does the logic require a set start / end point and the middle can be done in any order? B) Does it make sense to lock Tia / Ness as the bookends regardless if A is true or not?
If it can be done, any order should be the option.
Will this break a writ? My thought is not, but want to check.
Beyond that, I can't think of any. It truly enables people to support one another and themselves in a manner which maximizes their time as efficiently as possible. You include WAY more people this way I feel, because any of their toons at any point, basically qualify to tag and go. I truly feel this is an all around win / win for run frequency, player inclusion, player support, time utilization. Those who wanna grind still can, those who want the quick run and to progress still can.
For me personally, the time sink-yness of HG is what makes it appealing to me. I can play any other mainstream MMO to get fast and flexible instances. I am just stating this because I hope the trajectory isn't to completely eliminate that aspect of HG, but I do like the detours from that like the lowbie tags and Abyss to shake things up.
I agree with the consensus, just have the first cycle require the astral order.