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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 19:30:24 GMT
Level 100 = 1 billion XP, implement Bale's idea, or something close to it and you won't hear anyone cry again.
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Post by woqued on May 10, 2020 19:54:54 GMT
Level 100 = 1 billion XP, implement Bale's idea, or something close to it and you won't hear anyone cry again. You can't promise that, so don't. You shouldn't talk for everyone when you aren't in a position to do so Why do we need more arbitrary power boost for everyone? We don't. There is certain benefits to having a new chase target for people finished on 80s, but why should that be more power? That also happens to need a bunch of extra script work We already outperform on ideal toons, and underperform on subpar build choices. How about make the subpar ones interesting so we instead grind those out - and focus on giving more content to do, not insane grind goals for further powercreep
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2020 20:57:58 GMT
I have way more interest leveling toons and progressing toons which I’ve already dumped countless hours into than starting new things. New content requires the best toons so using the ones that have already gotten all the time makes sense, plus they are enjoyable. Give me more to do with those. If you want to take the power creep out and make more levels solely cosmetic related or other things I would still take that. The XP being meaningless feels bad. I don’t necessarily need more power, I just want the XP to offer me something.
To your point, make the XP brackets insane, 1 billion or more, and allow cosmetics / a token which gives a fresh level 40 with all pre-LL tags on creation for a one time use per level, and cosmetics every 4. Or whatever. You incentivize me to try other classes by letting me skip lowbie cancer and getting to where the game actually starts, level 55. Fix the classes and make it easier to get to 55 and I am there.
And you’re right, I can’t speak for everyone. Heck, in four months I’ve made 125 million on several toons. Granted that’s faster than most, but still. Make these gaps massive!
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Post by woqued on May 10, 2020 21:17:29 GMT
Ya, I'll agree there. I would love if I could skip 1-60 straight to Hells and honestly even Hells entirely, so I could just do Abyss/Ely/Limbo + occasional slaved Aboleths and do Nessus every now and then, and achieve all that by playing a lvl 80 character doing the stuff I like - but would that be a good thing for the game if that was what everyone did? Is that something that is interesting and fun for the devs to do pro/con lists on, figure out how to how to implement it, do it, then struggle with the aftermath...
I know what I would answer both from player and dev pov though I am no dev here - as a player, let me skip through all the stuff I find boring at this point that is just hundreds of hours of repetition that I no longer enjoy and just hop on the stuff I like. Now if I were a dev - yeah screw that, rather work on the new and interesting stuff, write new stories and create new and exciting things, things I haven't done before and see how they turn out.
... but with that out of the way, 125 million exp on a 80 (so you'd have to have minimum 250 million experience to do it) to create a new fresh reincarnation slot with 12,5 million experience free of class limitations for that iteration, up to maximum sub tier your account has unlocked, with all pre-LL tags unlocked and demix2? Where do I sign?
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Post by chirality on May 10, 2020 23:35:07 GMT
i had been under the impression that such exchange schemes were off the table
i've said it in past threads but these discussions always end up trying to fix some current problem instead of just being a separate new thing. as in, oh look there's this xp going to waste, let's use it to make the game more enjoyable, as opposed to let's codify a framework for what sort of benefits could be tied to levels past 80, what the angles are etc
why can't we fix issues like tag frustration and cycle repetitiveness on their own? why do we have to seek the solution by bending unrelated things to the purpose?
problem: toon is ugly >use xp to fix it oh: it's also uncraftable >use xp to fix it
:lowbie tagging sux >use xp to fix it :hell tagging sux >use xp to fix it :reinc sucks >use xp to fix it :making new toons sux >use xp to fix it
here's some more i recall from old threads: >weapon buffs >henchmen >TA >partybuffs >inventory/bank mgmt :bane knight Str spellpen sux >fix with xp
various things that we could invent something to purchase with XP to make better, i actually only made one of these up
yes, we can use overflow xp to fix all these, and i'm not necessarily saying we shouldn't. however i am saying that it seems like an absolute eventuality that levels past 80 will eventually be "unlocked". there is certainly no possibility that the same paragon epic spells and feats that have served since before limbo existed, are the final tier of power in terms of spells and feats. that just doesn't even make sense, come on. so, all i'm saying is let's at least get some patchwork in place now before we start playing with cosmetics and fluff. my idea is to basically use stat points and bs as a placeholder for now, which could easily be substituted for true feats or specials later. for now, it wouldn't require a lot of maintenance; no skill points, no RNG, 1 choice from 1 list. again, it's more the illusion and placebo of knowing you're levelling up than anything. certainly no one expects or wants anything truly powerful, but at the same time there's not very much meaning to just spending xp as tender to buy mtx-style products like cosmetics or time-investment-skip. there's also the fact that anything economic becomes subject to market; what happens when people spent hard-earned XP on something that got cheaper later on? i mean do people really want to start doing wow mount contests or fortnite fashion streams on HG? who spent the most xp on the rarest crap? or couriers, maybe combine pets+PH to get the maxed out effect of fashion+QoL. or which guild is the best to join because they have stockpiled the most xp to gift newbies vet-tier accounts right off the bat?
hey, nothing wrong with that, it just seems un-HG-like to me, but what do i know, i mean every time the subject of skipping tags comes up it results in a huge backlash over how runs will be impacted and newbies will be hurt, but then we love nothing more than picturing the star-studded future where we use all our extra xp to buy ourselves a free pass to the "fun" parts of the game, meanwhile newbies do not pass go, do not collect 200$, go directly to slog
shrug i just feel like subraces already kind of do a pretty good job of rewarding time investment on a non-level-related basis, and as for xp, post 80 is a new realm because of sheer xp involved, 1-60 was nothing and everyone knows it, there was no burning desire to bank post-60 xp because it simply wasn't needed, and largely this ofc is due to how explosively-tailored the xp curve is from LLs->60 with db>thid>hell. but people care a lot more about post 80 because it's a lot more xp. getting to 60 was an achievement but getting to 80 is legit like some serious hours, so at that point by the time you hit 80 you're already feeling pretty invested into this character's future, now if that future is i can make it a doppelganger, mah. why can't i just do that already :rolleyes: more to the point, how exactly will Father Llymic be harder than Limbo p2H yet still be pleasantly doable by L80s with the exact same paragon spells and feats as they have now? omega-level mutant L80s and their godly superhero gear can barely keep the reward:slog ratio acceptable as is.
i really am not so invested in this to spam this much, i'm just trying to explain myself i guess.
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Post by FunkySwerve on May 11, 2020 3:46:49 GMT
unwarranted, overly-defensive sarcasm as a retort to some perceived attack And now you are using fake 'quotes' to put words in my mouth? Seriously, don't you have better things to do with your time? Yes Funky, you are 100% right. I'm sorry about that. It was childish and I will not do it again. I know you have warned me about trolling on these forums repeatedly, and you could justifiably ban my ass, and I am very lucky you are so patient with me. Ok, I take it back. It doesn't take very long after all.
Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on May 11, 2020 3:52:18 GMT
Level 100 = 1 billion XP, implement Bale's idea, or something close to it and you won't hear anyone cry again. You can't promise that, so don't. You shouldn't talk for everyone when you aren't in a position to do so Why do we need more arbitrary power boost for everyone? We don't. There is certain benefits to having a new chase target for people finished on 80s, but why should that be more power? That also happens to need a bunch of extra script work We already outperform on ideal toons, and underperform on subpar build choices. How about make the subpar ones interesting so we instead grind those out - and focus on giving more content to do, not insane grind goals for further powercreep This touches on some of the many, many reasons why this is not worth discussing anytime soon. Funky
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Post by Enius the White on May 11, 2020 17:10:10 GMT
I have way more interest leveling toons and progressing toons which I’ve already dumped countless hours into than starting new things... You incentivize me to try other classes by letting me skip lowbie cancer and getting to where the game actually starts, level 55. One of the most important forces driving the longevity of HG is the interaction between end game players and new players. This is how new players are helped to climb that steep learning curve, bridge the wide XP gulch to the end game, etc, getting drawn into the amazing HG community. We see this everywhere from guilds posting runs to include new players, to the many HG vets who individually support play anywhere along the level progression. I've always been impressed by end game players who show, sometimes downright impressive, breadth of proficiency across the entire level/run spectrum. Anything that reduces the need, or desirability, for end game players to interact along other parts of the level progression can quickly be counter-productive. Any suggestions that telegraph this exact desire, and intention, make me cringe.
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