Weapon Specialization on Shifter

[gatsu83ita]

A question: does the Weap Specialization line (Unarmed) add to shifter forms?

Reading on wiki it says: "Shape Shifting: Unarmed weapon focus feats now benefit unarmed forms while shifted", so my thoughts were "no it doesnt add". But OC/DC and IC merge and isnt a "focus" line.

[Matt]

Iirc, I tested this out in the chamber eons ago, and the wep spec feats infact dont add any dmg that I could see after averaging the numbers with and without.

I believe the anarch bonus feat creature wep spec does add to dmg however.

[gatsu83ita]

I just needed to read more on shifter wiki page ^^':

For armed forms, legendary focus feats allow unarmed weapon focus feats to be translated to weapon focus feats:
With LFF1, Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, and Improved Critical are translated.
With LFF2, Epic Weapon Focus and Overwhelming Critical are translated.
With LFF3, Legendary Weapon Focus and Devastating critical are translated.

So no weap spec.

Dunno if PFF add something too.

[tomaan]

IIRC Weapon Specialization (Creature Weapon) translates to unarmed forms and you need at least LFF1 to take it in legendary and paragon levels.

Item-based feats didn't translate either on my shifter tank back in the olden days - I think it's because you basically "lose" your gear when shifted.

[simpetar]

Jun 5, 2020 15:34:42 GMT tomaan said:

IIRC Weapon Specialization (Creature Weapon) translates to unarmed forms and you need at least LFF1 to take it in legendary and paragon levels.

Item-based feats didn't translate either on my shifter tank back in the olden days - I think it's because you basically "lose" your gear when shifted.

Some item based props do transfer, such as oc/dc from Sign of Orcus (the go-for item spelljammer shifterlashes use with UMD), even though there is not any mention of that in documentation. We could not come to a definite conclusion about weapon spec (tested on zeny and rhek) for shifterlash, there were too many variables in the logs

[chirality]

(from what i remember)

i'm almost positive it's not at all about item-based feats not transferring. pretty clearly not the case, given the existence of both set and randomized oc/dc gear that is quite certainly functional on shifters.

it's about which feat applies to which forms. that's why the doc uses the specific wording "unarmed weapon focus feats now benefit unarmed forms." meanwhile (creature) work(s/always worked?) on (creature)-weapon-wielding forms. iirc this is why poor doppel (creature) feat is far less useful than zeny (unarmed), which actually does save you feats, if you are building for that.

(creature) is used by some forms (i dont think many, or at least nothing rly of note on hg iirc) and (unarmed) is used by some forms. although i want to say if it "looks" like it's using a weapon, it's (unarmed), the difference may not always obvious either (unsurprisingly--nwn and all), which is to say that there's no idiot-proof way of knowing at a glance whether a given form is actually using (creature) as its "natural weapon" or (unarmed)

i seem to recall the desirable forms benefiting from unarmed to be largely humanoid or undead: kenku, drow, sahaugin, risen lord stand out in my mind.

[tomaan]

Jun 5, 2020 16:09:18 GMT simpetar said:

Jun 5, 2020 15:34:42 GMT tomaan said:

IIRC Weapon Specialization (Creature Weapon) translates to unarmed forms and you need at least LFF1 to take it in legendary and paragon levels.

Item-based feats didn't translate either on my shifter tank back in the olden days - I think it's because you basically "lose" your gear when shifted.

Some item based props do transfer, such as oc/dc from Sign of Orcus (the go-for item spelljammer shifterlashes use with UMD), even though there is not any mention of that in documentation. We could not come to a definite conclusion about weapon spec (tested on zeny and rhek) for shifterlash, there were too many variables in the logs

Confirmed: I was just going through some old threads and realized that I didn't have LFF3 when I first tried it. Once I got it, however, I got the benefit of OC unarmed strike (didn't have DC at the time).

Now that I have better gear I might just have to dust off Swiss Army Tank!