Animal Companion Suggestion

[jelricle]

I wanted to make a suggestion to the developers about animal companions.  Have the developers ever thought of having the animals use Druid level + Ranger Level + Shifter level, instead of just the max of either druid level or ranger level?

There are two roleplay supports I would give this idea.  First, Rangers certainly would know how to continue raising their friend, and a Shifter is practically animal, themselves; shifters certainly would understand animal life.  Secondly, in the regular modules, I always feel bad that my character essentially abandons a faithful companion who helped them so much through the first seven or so levels of their life, but by the time I have a 5/5 druid/shifter, the companion would simply be slaughtered by the mobs they face. 
 
In terms of game play, I think it would add to the experience.  Aside, from the roleplay benefits that allow immersion, a companion that equals druid+ranger+shifter level is certainly not over-powered.  It would still need buffs, protection and strategy; it would hardly super charge the character, but would still giving the player a nice fun tool in their adventure.

[FunkySwerve]

This seems like it would pretty clearly tip the scales for shifters, who already wear a multitude of hats other than summoner.

Funky

[boroie]

Does anyone even use the animal summons (pets) on a ranger or druid? It seems common up to maybe level 20-30, but after that they seem to very quickly run out of steam. They don't seem to scale well compared to (for example) pale master undead pet.

[woqued]

The animal companions are rather weak no matter how you cook em. It's not useless if soloing on a newish character after you buff a companion, but other ways of going about the game are still far more effective - I found summoning and buffing the companion to be time inefficient even before lvl 35. Druids getting a bump of +x CL for purpose of animal companion / summons every at 5 levels would be an interesting add if such a ranger/shifter tweak was added (to make them superior in that regard to the mixed classes). Other ways of buffing the druid specific companions after this change would be to buff their animal companion buffing spells, which would edge out again compared to the Shitter ones.

Shifters having a on-level companion compareable to that of Druids would be fine due to inherent lack of tools to buff it with compared to a high caster level druid, I'd imagine? Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Short sidetrack on summons: There are some not-useless epic/paragon summons though, and they should be treated with some respect when tweaking numbers (duh) - although I think all of them could use a bump up in various ways - such as Duration, AB, Fear immunity(Death Phasm for one)... The bard army nerf was warranted but ended up being a bit too much (imo) - 'tis fine though because the extra possums is the real PSK yield. Very seldom used the army post-nerf to any effect, but gotta admit I didn't play enough bard testing it outside Limbo to have proper judgement there.

[jelricle]

Aug 17, 2020 16:02:37 GMT FunkySwerve said:

This seems like it would pretty clearly tip the scales for shifters, who already wear a multitude of hats other than summoner.

Funky

That would surprise me, but I readily admit to being a newbie.  Is there something we have already done for animal companions that would make this unbalancing? 
  
I hadn't noticed anything with animal companion that differed from the regular NWN mods.  Basically, animal companions just aren't that strong.  That is why I think this would be more a fun tool, rather than an uber beat down stick.

Even with full Druid, my panther always needs full buffing and strategic control to survive (let alone be useful) in higher level encounters.  Add to this that, with shifter and ranger levels, you have less access to buff spells and there is even more challenge.  For me, I enjoyed the strategy and planning that could include the animal companion as anything other than very temporary canon fodder.  Very early, though, if I jump to ranger or shifter, it just becomes impossible to make any use of them.  If they could at least level with me, they could remain in spitting distance of being competitive for much longer.
 
I will also readily admit that this is a selfish request (although that doesn't mean it isn't also a cool idea!   :-D    )  As the player, I really do feel guilty about just abandoning my pet after level 7 or so -- Word to the wise: Do not name your animal companion after a cherished childhood pet! -- I can only imagine how my characters would feel.  Separately, I do think that certainly a Ranger could continue to raise their pet, and a shifter should also be properly knowledgeable.

[FunkySwerve]

I agree that the companions are pretty weak at the moment. Scaling them is tricky, because they are statted much differently than PCs. My main concern is not that adding shifter levels would make them OP, but that it would create problematic class inbalances that would rear their heads once companions are fine-tuned after we release all the Elder Evil content.

Funky

[jelricle]

BTW, the way I am working around this is going over and dominating that poor Oltum. Still, it has some disadvantages.
1) That Oltum, at my level, is _very_ OP. Rather than trying to keep it safe, I spend time trying to keep it from claiming all the glory!
2) I keep getting pulled out of immersion. I feel bad "dominating" that poor bird, constantly (and regularly, releasing it, then re-dominating it, just to ensure that it doesn't break free in the middle of a fight)

[FunkySwerve]

I tend to agree. It's been there since I took over about 17+ years ago, though, so I was a bit hesitant to mess with it. We may eventually rebalance it, when we get to honing lowbie content (looking at you, drow skirmishers).

Funky

[boroie]

Aug 26, 2020 5:38:46 GMT FunkySwerve said:

I tend to agree. It's been there since I took over about 17+ years ago, though, so I was a bit hesitant to mess with it. We may eventually rebalance it, when we get to honing lowbie content (looking at you, drow skirmishers).

Funky

The bird itself is a great help for low level players to speed through the grind and get experienced faster, and is only relevant up to about level 15-20 really. Added to that, the fact you have to run everywhere with it as opposed to porting does temper the utility. However the main sticking point for me is that it discriminates against players without animal empathy, or encourages players to splash ranger then reincarnate. Only some players will ever see the benefit of the bird. 

[chainlink]

Or Druid or Shifter levels but basically correct.
FYI It can get you all the way to the level 25 accomplishments if you know what you ware doing with it but by that point some of the emp'able creatures in the Druids Grove surpass it by some way as they have specific immunities to the mind effects (stun being the primary one) that cause issues for the Oltum.
I love the Aurumvorax (my description 'It's like a lump of concrete with teeth') and the Lamassu is impressively effective even past level 25.

[madzapper]

Aug 26, 2020 8:30:59 GMT boroie said:

However the main sticking point for me is that it discriminates against players without animal empathy, or encourages players to splash ranger then reincarnate. Only some players will ever see the benefit of the bird. 

Well, sure... that's a schtik of rangers/druids. Other classes certainly have theirs too and druids/rangers won't see them unless they splash as well.

[boroie]

Aug 26, 2020 20:21:03 GMT madzapper said:

Aug 26, 2020 8:30:59 GMT boroie said:

However the main sticking point for me is that it discriminates against players without animal empathy, or encourages players to splash ranger then reincarnate. Only some players will ever see the benefit of the bird. 

Well, sure... that's a schtik of rangers/druids. Other classes certainly have theirs too and druids/rangers won't see them unless they splash as well.

Yes, but the point I was (inelegantly) trying to make was in agreement of the Oltum being somewhat OP. Other than high level wands (eg Thids) being passed down, the Oltum is the only way a level 5 character takes out the bandits on the east road or farms the farm, etc. You can seriously power level with that thing if you are careful with it. And if it dies, go to another server. At least wands have charges. 

[chainlink]

So what you are suggesting is that you should be stuck either painfully grinding slow exp or only building classes that can easily do all the low level accs themselves?
It is worth bearing in mind that most long time players have access to Saphires (obtained as BUR drops in LL runs) which give them 500,000 xp and save all the low level grinding pain when they decide to make a new character.

[sabregirl]

Aug 26, 2020 11:45:12 GMT chainlink said:

I love the Aurumvorax (my description 'It's like a lump of concrete with teeth') and the Lamassu is impressively effective even past level 25.

I would definitely direct more players to the animals in the druid grove. They all can be transitioned to other areas. The Lamassu is actually a spell caster so if you are careful you can use it to help with the lvl 30ish dragons. The only problem with it is you cannot get it to rest and get spells back so once it is out of spells it is done. However it has decent melee afterwards and doesn't die easily.

In my opinion I'd rather have a companion that could simply stay alive for longer than one that has very effective melee. That said I did solo east road with a fully buffed animal companion at approximately level appropriate at least for a while.


The stone of the earth mother was originally intended to replace the animal companion but the summons there are now ridiculously weak.

-S

[jelricle]

:-D Another possible solution is to allow animal companions to level with Druid + Ranger + Shifter. That would keep the companions level appropriate, so they would not need to grab Oltum. ;-)