|
Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 10, 2020 19:01:36 GMT
What effects will it have on the vestige's use? Is it still useful to some?
Funky
|
|
|
Post by woqued on Dec 10, 2020 19:27:38 GMT
What effects will it have on the vestige's use? Is it still useful to some? Funky Yes, it can still be used by people who don't have slot issues with it, they simply need to remember to use it when they go up to rest pre-emptively. It is still useful for some. The change heavily works against some of it's primary users: lootmages and lootclerics. But yes, others can do it for them. Rogues have their own secret amulet so they don't need the vestige. Who else needs to find secrets? Other roguesplashers. What is the most common roguesplasher? A caster. Those casters don't like it anymore, and that's the gist of why you're seeing such a negative reaction even if those people didn't make their case for it very well. It will mean toons who do have said issues will not be able to use it. It is useful to some, but it is less useful because it requires more active preparation to make use of, and half of us won't remember to do that resting switcheroo.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2020 21:09:03 GMT
To be clear, it’s exclusively used for its on use feature to locate secrets. This vestige is not used for any other reason and there is zero purpose at present for it to exist beyond that. It’s a very nice perk for everyone to speed up the secret hunting process.
It’s quality of life because multiple players after there first two vestiges usually have two extra that are either unclaimed or rarely leveraged. Due to this, the torch had significant value to the players because it provided a direct and beneficial benefit to the party by speeding up the process of secret finding.
Alternatives to this are to adjust the drop locations of Flotsam from the elemental plane of water, expanding from low and mid levels to higher too. This can facilitate more players farming the material needed to make locate object potions (same functionality that the torch is used for).
Possibly also making a locate object item as a possible drop from the elemental planes and then moving to Woq’s idea about repurposing the secret finding piece to a different item and this potentially being reworked to be a viable torch option to bridge the gaps between power points for monks or depending on the direction you take it, torch users generally.
In Limbo and others places where slots come at a premium this is a huge negative to an otherwise tedious but rewarding process and has potentially large bumps to run time as players feel the “need” for secrets and have a much smaller pool of players who either have torches or can use it without hurting the runs.
|
|
|
Post by drunkenboastor on Dec 10, 2020 21:22:34 GMT
Brazier of Painful Truth has one function, to make it easier to find secrets. There is nothing about the item that would suggest it has value for any other purpose. Enforcing the need to rest to function just adds an extra hurdle to use it for the only reason to use it. The change in effect increases the amount of time doing not combat stuff, something that does not seem to be in the definition of an action server.
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 11, 2020 0:51:41 GMT
To be clear, it’s exclusively used for its on use feature to locate secrets. Then why would so many casters be using it, if not to boost slots? Funky
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 1:02:14 GMT
To be clear, it’s exclusively used for its on use feature to locate secrets. Then why would so many casters be using it, if not to boost slots? Funky Caster's aren't using the Brazier to boost slots, casters pre-edits were using the brazier to find secrets knowing they could restore slots when resting. As mentioned previously, now that you have to rest with it on, they cannot retain the slots they'd otherwise / previously had access to effectively killing the item for these classes. Paired with the extremely tedious behavior of remembering to equip on rest it's "broken" the item for a lot of people. The casters use the torches to help the searcher find secrets. Runs like Limbo are a prime example of secrets that aren't on the edge of a map or "thing" half the time. They're random spots along the path, in the middle of the path. It can sometimes take 1-4 sets of arrows to get one maps worth of secrets. For this purpose there was value in everyone obtaining a loot torch to support these efforts. It is quite literally referred to as the "loot torch" for this reason. Limbo brought this into prime-time even more than before because canopics drop via secrets. The loot torch truly offers nothing except the Locate Object functionality for arrows and for a few bonuses to Search. I think some of the very strong reactions we have seen within this thread are because it's truly limited scope / application and the adjusting of that already targeted behavior which to players felt "needless" when there was no ill gotten gains / exploits / advantages. It truly was quality of life. From a developer standpoint you were fixing something that wasn't in line with the described functionality. You spelled that out perfectly in a previous post in this thread. It "feels" malicious, intended or not, because the torch is worthless beyond the arrow functionality. We can still do what we did, less people can do it than before, and those who still can have to expend more work doing it.
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 11, 2020 1:35:10 GMT
Then why would so many casters be using it, if not to boost slots? Funky Caster's aren't using the Brazier to boost slots, casters pre-edits were using the brazier to find secrets knowing they could restore slots when resting. As mentioned previously, now that you have to rest with it on, they cannot retain the slots they'd otherwise / previously had access to effectively killing the item for these classes. Paired with the extremely tedious behavior of remembering to equip on rest it's "broken" the item for a lot of people. The casters use the torches to help the searcher find secrets. Runs like Limbo are a prime example of secrets that aren't on the edge of a map or "thing" half the time. They're random spots along the path, in the middle of the path. It can sometimes take 1-4 sets of arrows to get one maps worth of secrets. For this purpose there was value in everyone obtaining a loot torch to support these efforts. It is quite literally referred to as the "loot torch" for this reason. Limbo brought this into prime-time even more than before because canopics drop via secrets. The loot torch truly offers nothing except the Locate Object functionality for arrows and for a few bonuses to Search. I think some of the very strong reactions we have seen within this thread are because it's truly limited scope / application and the adjusting of that already targeted behavior which to players felt "needless" when there was no ill gotten gains / exploits / advantages. It truly was quality of life. From a developer standpoint you were fixing something that wasn't in line with the described functionality. You spelled that out perfectly in a previous post in this thread. It "feels" malicious, intended or not, because the torch is worthless beyond the arrow functionality. We can still do what we did, less people can do it than before, and those who still can have to expend more work doing it. Quoting this partly for posterity, and partly to point out that the fixed bug allowed casters to avail themselves of the benefits of the item without the cost of spellslots. Your notion of 'QoL' is, to put the kindest possible spin on it, severely flawed. Funky
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 1:55:24 GMT
That's fair. We are getting something for nothing and so that isn't quality of life, that is a bug. You have rectified that bug. This freebie was something that helped alleviate a very tedious and annoying piece of the game experience for a large portion of the population. Likely some will continue to use the torch in its corrected form for that purpose and some will abandon it all together. Whether matching the true definition of QoL or not that is how a large portion of the players perceived this to be and the correction damaged that experience.
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 11, 2020 1:58:03 GMT
That's fair. We are getting something for nothing and so that isn't quality of life, that is a bug. You have rectified that bug. This freebie was something that helped alleviate a very tedious and annoying piece of the game experience for a large portion of the population. Likely some will continue to use the torch in its corrected form for that purpose and some will abandon it all together. Whether matching the true definition of QoL or not that is how a large portion of the players perceived this to be and the correction damaged that experience. Can you think of any game-balance reason I might do such a nefarious thing? Funky
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 2:01:28 GMT
Lots of reasons. You may have loot coming that does unique / special things, you may be bumping / adjusting slots, you may have simply wanted to correct acting functionality with intended functionality. As you have stated and what I believe is there was nothing nefarious behind it. Your post earlier in this thread about your intentions was clear and that has always been such.
|
|
|
Post by chirality on Dec 11, 2020 2:27:51 GMT
The change in effect increases the amount of time doing not combat stuff, something that does not seem to be in the definition of an action server. meanwhile, the 2h%+HS nerf increases the amount of time spent doing combat stuff, adding extra action to help make up for the hit to the server's reputation caused by all the extra searching
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 11, 2020 3:38:24 GMT
Lots of reasons. You may have loot coming that does unique / special things, you may be bumping / adjusting slots, you may have simply wanted to correct acting functionality with intended functionality. As you have stated and what I believe is there was nothing nefarious behind it. Your post earlier in this thread about your intentions was clear and that has always been such. I don't mean hypothetical future reasons. I mean reasons why maybe the edit might conceivably be a good one, right now. Funky
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2020 4:26:55 GMT
Can’t think of a single thing.
|
|
|
Post by Paradoom on Dec 12, 2020 4:41:19 GMT
I can think of absolutly no reason either. I am actually starting to wonder if we are really talking about the same item. What set me off is the mention of boosting your spell slots. Could it be you are mixing up Brazers of Painful Truths (the one prep, woku and I are talking about) with the Eye of Deception that grants confusion imm and spellslots?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2020 5:29:28 GMT
It would explain a lot if that’s the case.
|
|