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Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 16, 2020 22:25:27 GMT
After some deliberation by the Team, we're going to make the following edits to deal with player dissatisfaction over the HS nerf:
HS Smile will be a flat duration of 2 minutes per use, not based on any stat
Dual-wielders will be getting some form of kb reduction/limiting (either ignoring offhand attacks or a % of total attacks)
Weapon buffs will now buff an offhand weapon at no additional cost or action
We will be introducing a new feat, Epic Two Weapon Fighting, to add another attack per round at the highest ab (without iteration)
Clockwork Boots will be changed in line with the DP cloak and belt
Funky
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Post by Pulpo on Dec 16, 2020 22:41:37 GMT
@funky I am Severely Disappointed at the lack of BUFFS TO BROWNIES!!! BRING US BACK TO LIFE !!!!. For real tho, need a tiny xr race like Atomie with amazing Tank stats so that Prep and Manuka are forced to play them and Limbo will be conquered by Fairies ! Thanks to you and the team for the hard work )
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Post by manuka on Dec 16, 2020 22:50:29 GMT
After some deliberation by the Team, we're going to make the following edits to deal with player dissatisfaction over the HS nerf: HS Smile will be a flat duration of 2 minutes per use, not based on any stat Dual-wielders will be getting some form of kb reduction/limiting (either ignoring offhand attacks or a % of total attacks) Weapon buffs will now buff an offhand weapon at no additional cost or action We will be introducing a new feat, Epic Two Weapon Fighting, to add another attack per round at the highest ab (without iteration) Clockwork Boots will be changed in line with the DP cloak and belt Funky Thanks funky and team Im surprised you you would make dual weild that powerful, seems counter productive after nefring tanks but um it works for me. High damage and high ac tanks now lol Also would recommend not to change clockwork boots, as taking out items that cause you to lose defense at the cost of gaining damage is a big loss for the game. While trying to balance two handed tanks and dual weild it needs to clear that 2h tanks should always do more damage as dual weild have the option of dex which gives them ac and ab. Staying alive and having more combat uptime is a massive damage increase and QOL as is |
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Post by xakila on Dec 16, 2020 23:10:41 GMT
Will epic two weapon fighting be available to rangers without extra feat investment since rangers are most likely be pushed towards dual wielding?
Looks like some neat changes most excited about noy needing to double buff.
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Post by woqued on Dec 16, 2020 23:51:03 GMT
I'm worried these dualwielder buffs are too much after all the other changes
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Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 17, 2020 0:16:28 GMT
After some deliberation by the Team, we're going to make the following edits to deal with player dissatisfaction over the HS nerf: HS Smile will be a flat duration of 2 minutes per use, not based on any stat Dual-wielders will be getting some form of kb reduction/limiting (either ignoring offhand attacks or a % of total attacks) Weapon buffs will now buff an offhand weapon at no additional cost or action We will be introducing a new feat, Epic Two Weapon Fighting, to add another attack per round at the highest ab (without iteration) Clockwork Boots will be changed in line with the DP cloak and belt Funky Thanks funky and team Im surprised you you would make dual weild that powerful, seems counter productive after nefring tanks but um it works for me. High damage and high ac tanks now lol Also would recommend not to change clockwork boots, as taking out items that cause you to lose defense at the cost of gaining damage is a big loss for the game. While trying to balance two handed tanks and dual weild it needs to clear that 2h tanks should always do more damage as dual weild have the option of dex which gives them ac and ab. Staying alive and having more combat uptime is a massive damage increase and QOL as is I'm surprised you edited your post to say nearly the opposite. What happened?  Funky |
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Post by boroie on Dec 17, 2020 0:17:51 GMT
Any chance of adding ranger AC to double weapons Funky?
Reason: Thematically they look and sound cool. Double weapons are barely used as is. They already require exotic weapon proficiency to differentiate from 2x 1H weapons.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 17, 2020 0:22:43 GMT
I'm worried these dualwielder buffs are too much after all the other changes Suggest you do up a chart with pros and cons of DW vs 2H. It's somewhat grim. Anyway, we're debating the dex req on ETWF atm. Will be base 30 or higher (and req ITWF or ranger). I'll also be taking a hard look at the kb options, because yes, balancing 2H-Dual and Str-Dex is tricky even if you know where the final mob stats will land, roughly (which is still being tested/prooved out in the next two area sets). Also, what will be balanced at 80, will not at 62.5 (Limbo), and the delay from here to there is another dimension to the problem. Funky |
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Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 17, 2020 0:23:45 GMT
Any chance of adding ranger AC to double weapons Funky? Reason: Thematically they look and sound cool. Double weapons are barely used as is. They already require exotic weapon proficiency to differentiate from 2x 1H weapons. Nope. Holding off on the TWD feat chain as well, right now. Funky |
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Post by boroie on Dec 17, 2020 0:26:56 GMT
Nope. Holding off on the TWD feat chain as well, right now. Funky Fair enough. Makes me sad to see all those DB double scimitars going unused. I'll wait and see what comes in the pipeline. Anyway these changes seem interesting, thanks for keeping up the fast pace of development! |
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Post by manuka on Dec 17, 2020 0:33:12 GMT
I'm worried these dualwielder buffs are too much after all the other changes Suggest you do up a chart with pros and cons of DW vs 2H. It's somewhat grim. Anyway, we're debating the dex req on ETWF atm. Will be base 30 or higher (and req ITWF or ranger). I'll also be taking a hard look at the kb options, because yes, balancing 2H-Dual and Str-Dex is tricky even if you know where the final mob stats will land, roughly (which is still being tested/prooved out in the next two area sets). Also, what will be balanced at 80, will not at 62.5 (Limbo), and the delay from here to there is another dimension to the problem. Funky Atm with poison buffs and 2h nerfs dual weild is allready better than 2h. Whats giving 2h the slight edge is mass haste. If this spell isnt being constantly cast dual weild is far superior before the new dual weild buffs come out. Dual weild uses high dex to gain ac and ab. The better survival ur tank has the more dps time it can do. Basically u throw on a ocdc item and you dont miss the str. Dex toons allready have access to the very powerful zio robes that half kb. If these changes go through for dual weild, the entire meta will shift from 2h to dual weild. Atm i would let them 2h nerfs play out and see where the power lies rather than buff dual weild and make it by far the better option All that being said id be excited to play super high ac dual weild tanks that do mre damage than low ac 2h tanks  Just seems a lil pointless to makes tanks so strong again, and annoying for everyone who spent the last couple years farming xr 2h weps |
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Post by FunkySwerve on Dec 17, 2020 1:23:44 GMT
Atm with poison buffs and 2h nerfs dual weild is allready better than 2h. Whats giving 2h the slight edge is mass haste. If this spell isnt being constantly cast dual weild is far superior before the new dual weild buffs come out. Dual weild uses high dex to gain ac and ab. The better survival ur tank has the more dps time it can do. Basically u throw on a ocdc item and you dont miss the str. Dex toons allready have access to the very powerful zio robes that half kb. If these changes go through for dual weild, the entire meta will shift from 2h to dual weild. Atm i would let them 2h nerfs play out and see where the power lies rather than buff dual weild and make it by far the better option All that being said id be excited to play super high ac dual weild tanks that do mre damage than low ac 2h tanks Just seems a lil pointless to makes tanks so strong again, and annoying for everyone who spent the last couple years farming xr 2h weps Understood, and I agree on the risk of making dualers too nice. It's very hard to dial in a good balance when current content makes high-end ab AND ac somewhat pointless. We're having difficulty locking in a number on ETWF - as another team member has pointed out, it may be better as a higher-up LTWF feat. Bear in mind, however, that STR builds benefit more from added attacks, and are hurt less by resists. The current meta will allow something closer to my original resist scaling, but that's TBD. Mechanus is, in addition to being one of the two proving grounds for my new statting meta, VERY different from limbo, and closer to the abyss than the hells. Statting is more varied, meaning that high ab and high ac will be more important, at least on the margins. The current nerf on HS was more about 2H-dualer balance than just 'nerfing tanks', but as dexers can take both caution is warranted. Funky |
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Post by manuka on Dec 17, 2020 1:52:24 GMT
Atm with poison buffs and 2h nerfs dual weild is allready better than 2h. Whats giving 2h the slight edge is mass haste. If this spell isnt being constantly cast dual weild is far superior before the new dual weild buffs come out. Dual weild uses high dex to gain ac and ab. The better survival ur tank has the more dps time it can do. Basically u throw on a ocdc item and you dont miss the str. Dex toons allready have access to the very powerful zio robes that half kb. If these changes go through for dual weild, the entire meta will shift from 2h to dual weild. Atm i would let them 2h nerfs play out and see where the power lies rather than buff dual weild and make it by far the better option All that being said id be excited to play super high ac dual weild tanks that do mre damage than low ac 2h tanks Just seems a lil pointless to makes tanks so strong again, and annoying for everyone who spent the last couple years farming xr 2h weps Understood, and I agree on the risk of making dualers too nice. It's very hard to dial in a good balance when current content makes high-end ab AND ac somewhat pointless. We're having difficulty locking in a number on ETWF - as another team member has pointed out, it may be better as a higher-up LTWF feat. Bear in mind, however, that STR builds benefit more from added attacks, and are hurt less by resists. The current meta will allow something closer to my original resist scaling, but that's TBD. Mechanus is, in addition to being one of the two proving grounds for my new statting meta, VERY different from limbo, and closer to the abyss than the hells. Statting is more varied, meaning that high ab and high ac will be more important, at least on the margins. The current nerf on HS was more about 2H-dualer balance than just 'nerfing tanks', but as dexers can take both caution is warranted. Funky Tbh with that being the case i would go for 4min x3 duration and for dual weild or 1h gets a 20% longer duration. Also if these recent changes to 2h damage is to even the playing field i feel a better option would be to put back the 40% 2h damage, remove mass haste as a spell and throw in the dual weild buffs. Because the biggest problem with balancing dual and 2h is apr buffs |
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Post by desocupado on Dec 17, 2020 3:46:44 GMT
I would suggest always having 3 charges for harper attack buff. Having fewer charges isn't really fun when bellow level 50 or 70.
(non-monk) Dual wielders can reduce kickback by equipping a shield if they need to resist kickback, I don't think it's worthwhile to adjust kickback further.
The third offhand attack would be gated behind 4 feats and -2 AB (-4 if using a relative medium sized weapon) - I don't think additional requisites would be required.
If you still feel that dexters need one additional attack, make it passive from blinding speed feat or a new feat requiring it.
The weapon buff adjustment is quite nice for dual wielders.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2020 6:33:36 GMT
Dual wield will be king, everyone pivot there. Harper Scout is still full abandon ship. Everyone stockpile medium weps!
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