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Post by dagoon on Dec 21, 2020 1:59:52 GMT
Are there any thoughts on what have become pretty much mandatory items for certain classes? Such as abo torch for druids (green radius) or the curse radius armor for bards (there are possibly more, but these two are the most prominent to me). The usefulness they provide make them pretty much mandatory, just wondered if it had been considered maybe either a wider variety of items with this (or maybe make it an ego effect) or even add it as a feat to encourage a wider choice of hearing options?
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Post by horbag on Dec 21, 2020 2:22:33 GMT
i guess it is not the same for everyone, i for one think it is mandatory for casters to use the +1 dc amulets (pendant of the seer and forgot the other one for the arcane), any form of amni imm (abo ring comes to mind for tanks) any form of confiusion imm, at least some form of FoM on an item, that GS amulet (forgot the name aswell) i am not too known with a lot of classes but i know there are DC items for cs rangers but on my bard i do like the stillsound book from thids (you use it on mollys in abyss) and all the stygia wands! well at least moste, as i don't think meny will use the find trap one
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Post by manuka on Dec 21, 2020 2:36:29 GMT
Are there any thoughts on what have become pretty much mandatory items for certain classes? Such as abo torch for druids (green radius) or the curse radius armor for bards (there are possibly more, but these two are the most prominent to me). The usefulness they provide make them pretty much mandatory, just wondered if it had been considered maybe either a wider variety of items with this (or maybe make it an ego effect) or even add it as a feat to encourage a wider choice of hearing options? These items are in-line with the other items that have been recently adjusted to make the game less fun, and should be removed asap
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Post by manuka on Dec 21, 2020 2:46:05 GMT
Also stun daze and confuse immunity should be removed
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Post by chirality on Dec 21, 2020 2:54:33 GMT
you could just not play
i'm sure you have way cooler games to enjoy
or did you already conquer them too
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Post by woqued on Dec 21, 2020 3:04:31 GMT
Yeah, druid torch is probably the worst offender in this way - would like to see druids in general addressed with the torch and monk ac requirement; move monk ac to druids to allow not splashing monk options for druids, and maybe the NB radius could not be tied to the torch alone, it's such a key feature about druiding and normal radius NB is super sad in practice. Bard armor has a similar issue, but I think it's fine to force bards to use bard armors, not really that different form casters using Wraps, never found that much of an issue personally; though tying the bard effect into a randomizable drop would at least keep the interest alive. Powerspike is finding any such copy; progression is finding the best possible alternative. Kind of in line with Bads idea from another thread, to allow Crucible to randomize sets; though that'd be kinda nuts it's still definitely a form of mad genius in there that is awesome.
That being said, I like there being chase items, powerspikes if you may. No single item should probably dominate entire playing field XR / Paragon sets included, but on the way there and classes could have specific items dominate very heavily for a period of time, not including the absolute pinnacle, capped out gearing. That probably has to be left to uber randomization and situational, to enable build variety.
Derail: other items used to be Harper Boots and Wrap, and it's good they were nerfed [wrap is still great for dualwielders that don't have feat leeway for 2wf feats]. Would like to see a similar buff to all moliated secret items; to put them above BURs with at least rare Augmenter on them - call them mid / early late game powerspikes that would be great.
I dislike tying such key effects to Egos tho, they just replace one mandatory with another, more rare and aggravating one.
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Post by manuka on Dec 21, 2020 3:12:51 GMT
Greater sanctuary also needs to be removed asap
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Post by woqued on Dec 21, 2020 3:16:08 GMT
Greater sanctuary also needs to be removed asap Can you stop? Go to festering oubliette and vent your frustration there, or just suck it up and grow up. Stop trolling and derailing different threads with your mental leakage
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Post by manuka on Dec 21, 2020 3:18:12 GMT
Greater sanctuary also needs to be removed asap Can you stop? Go to festering oubliette and vent your frustration there, or just suck it up and grow up. Stop trolling and derailing different threads with your mental leakage I believe its allready slated for a change, sorry for your hurt feelings
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Post by woqued on Dec 21, 2020 3:20:29 GMT
Can you stop? Go to festering oubliette and vent your frustration there, or just suck it up and grow up. Stop trolling and derailing different threads with your mental leakage I believe its allready slated for a change, sorry for your hurt feelings I don't know or care about that, nor are my feelings hurt. However that, daze, and stun imms and whatnot have nothing to do with dagoons thread.
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Post by manuka on Dec 21, 2020 3:22:57 GMT
I believe its allready slated for a change, sorry for your hurt feelings I don't know or care about that, nor are my feelings hurt. However that, daze, and stun imms and whatnot have nothing to do with dagoons thread. I think you will find that you cover daze stun and confuse on your limbo tanks. Its simply required to be effective. Same as druid torch
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Post by woqued on Dec 21, 2020 3:27:24 GMT
In Limbo yes, but not everywhere. It's a run specific requirement, not a class specific one and not tied to a single item/slot. You also cover breach in most layers of Hell, you don't need daze in most of hells/abyss/elysium/aboleths. You don't need stun in most of them either, but it is certainly very useful in many of them - but almost never mandatory outside Limbo. Druid torch is universally always the move, = potentially a problem, and the premise of the thread.
It wouldn't hurt to try explaining your logic before posting stuff, or thinking it through first to not leave others guessing.
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Post by manuka on Dec 21, 2020 3:29:31 GMT
In Limbo yes, but not everywhere. It's a run specific requirement, not a class specific one. You also cover breach in most layers of Hell, you don't need daze in most of hells/abyss/elysium/aboleths. You don't need stun in most of them either, but it is certainly very useful in many of them - but almost never mandatory outside Limbo. Druid torch is universally always the move, = potentially a problem, and the premise of the thread. It wouldn't hurt to try explaining your logic before posting stuff, or thinking it through first to not leave others guessing. You dont need a druid torch in db
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Post by chirality on Dec 21, 2020 13:11:33 GMT
I think you will find that you cover daze stun and confuse on your limbo tanks. Its simply required to be effective. Same as druid torch nah, only play cot in limbo, read it's the best tank on the server. you will find it gets innate daze stun and confuse immunity. i think you will find no item required for this oops
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2020 15:22:38 GMT
I think several of these item features and / or ego features (e.g. Turner ego) need to be built into the class and other directions chosen. Radius enhancing effects take interactions that without them would take 2-3 actions down to one. Now, learning from my previous experience with “QoL”, I previously would have defined this as such but then we are getting a lot for it, so it is not QoL, at least in the true sense that would be read.
We are effectively getting spell slots or item ability uses for free. So, what solutions are there? I think it’s important to understand the player perspective here which is that features like these greatly and markedly improve the player experience on these given classes. Some people may not feel these are required uses and therefore should be left alone. If you want to leave them, fine.
I think they should be built into the classes and maybe be the perks for the caster variants of these characters versus their battle brethren who as duel wield comes to shine, as balance for battle casters really brings them better into the fray you are offering some of those same upgrades to cores in a meaningful without overwhelming plus.
A lot of people would defer to items like these even with a lot of other items in existence due to how much of a positive and meaningful impact it makes on the gaming experience. Boxing or no boxing these are huge winners. Since each of the cores has a “job” or expectation to perform such as green or curse, before starting, things that enhance that will be winners.
An alternative idea to maintain features such as this, while also expanding gear usage is consider expanding the mote slot. This has been brought up in the past and dumped on. But, here is my idea.
One Pelor mote. One spell / ability mote (e.g. we had a thread discussing motes which would increase banish SP or DC verse a targeted alignment, or other very specific things as rewards) and one character / class feature mote. Maybe the Druid has a green radius mote, and then gets something for his fonts, or whatever. Heck even just one per class where you can then free up the true gear slots for competitive use.
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