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Post by desocupado on Jan 16, 2021 12:05:04 GMT
Banshee offers 3 good things, the save reduction aura is massive for anyone else using DC, while both wail (faster, big aoe and higher DC than basilisk) and sonic damage (will based, no evasion) are useful abilities.
Risen Lord is breach and critical immune and has on hit death effect with less DC than banshee, but more attempts per round with each attack. As long you don't need to make dex checks it's sort of ok at bashing and doing the occasional instant kill.
Spectre has SP ignoring level drain. A bit more spammable than sorcerer's ones.
Baelhorn has 2 spells, positive damage finger of death and sunburst. Unfortunately the lack of all spell penetration feats limits their usability. The last ability grants up to 3 temporary caster levels to the target - this is an huge.
Vampire is there.
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Post by woqued on Jan 16, 2021 12:48:03 GMT
Dunno how big they used to be and I don't know if they change in size with LFF, but, yes, basic dragon forms are small (which is actually very good. My Beholder grew to such a large size with LFF that it can't get through the Beholder tunnels!) It is a lot of fun to be a a runty little dragon, slicing up Glithilhdoul, tooth against claw. LFF form changes are interesting. I love the risen lord and the Vampire, when moving, but the vampire looks like kinda doofussy when standing still. :-D Hmmm, so even with full DC, it is unlikely to beat saves of 52 to 58. The half damage of a seige mode stone golem is probably better than a knock down from wing buffet that keeps failing. Again. 52-58 is more in paragon content (Limbo), Hells are 47-57ish closer in that range (+ paragon/superior/elite save increases on top). But these aren't areas you solo on shifter, and you can savedrop with Harpy curse if you're out of a bard, but these parties are rare. Even in that scenario, when needed, the party can help with bestow curse / drain / bt and so on and so on... You can drop saves by up to 12 quite easily if your party is doing their job - curse + prayer/wail + battletide and you're set, for better coverage or high sr mobs fear auras, seren etc - as I mentioned earlier. It is a party module, shifter as a solobolo isn't supposed to land everything easily on endgame enemies without party support, but with good party support shifters generally land everything, the DC isn't their primary issue. "Full dc" is in 62-65 range depending on toon and form, and enemies with 57ish save dropped by 12 looking at around 45. For particularly troublesome enemies, we can also stat/lvl drain them further unless they're immune, and even in the case of Limbo bosses, we are still looking at decent odds of success. I didn't notice earlier but you also didn't mention a stat artifact of wisdom for a further +1 DC; certain Legendary areas drop artifacts exclusive with eachother that are one-time only consumed on a character for a +2 stat gain of a stat of your choice and a special utility ability and immunity of some sort on top. For DC characters such as Shifter, your main stat in Wisdom is almost always the choice. Again, I'd advice you to take a look at the bestiary wikis. Abyss isn't complete, Limbo isn't complete, but Hells is very well covered and potentially gives you a better idea than some random strangers on the internet who very well may be full of shieet.
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Post by jelricle on Jan 17, 2021 22:32:47 GMT
Yeah, while it is going to be ages, if ever, for me to get to the endgame runs (I'm a lover, not a fighter . . . I mean an explorer, not a power gamer) I have already hit Bosses that I cannot solo. The run to the bosses have been okay, solo, when I can go inch by inch . . . except when I accidentally get sucked into a nest of uber-beholders!
Still, there is a lot to explore in the meantime. My present strategy has been to do a run with a group (who would be _way_ too bored with my explorations of every nook and cranny) then return later to do the walk leisurely.
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Post by jelricle on Jan 17, 2021 22:36:32 GMT
Undead benefits: Vampire GS is awesome for a person who likes to explore solo, like me.
Baelnorn has 100% positive immunity which renders greater ruin (and earthquake?) virtually impotent, unless you roll a natural 1. (although the LFF demi lich form is rather lame. I feel like Mort, from Planescape: Torment) Finger of death and Sunburst have also been life savers.
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Post by simpetar on Jan 18, 2021 8:32:10 GMT
Undead benefits: Vampire GS is awesome for a person who likes to explore solo, like me. Baelnorn has 100% positive immunity which renders greater ruin (and earthquake?) virtually impotent, unless you roll a natural 1. (although the LFF demi lich form is rather lame. I feel like Mort, from Planescape: Torment) Finger of death and Sunburst have also been life savers. It is true that 100% positive imm will make your life easier when you need to survive EQ spam, unfortunately most of EQ spammers are highly resistant to anything you can throw at them as baelnorn. Asmo plate comes with immunity to EQ and isn't exactly the top picks in nessus loot split and so does (muuuuch later) one limbo belt. GRuin spam is a real issue in pre-LL content, but the danger comes not from positive damage (which can be easily outhealed), but from the slim chance you roll low and go kaboom. Baelnorn will NOT protect you from getting exploded by itself, although it does fill one of the requirements for full GR immunity. Keep in mind that while in undead shape you are technically undead. Healing potions will not heal you, you need harm potions and later on harm beaker from PoM. Also, if your focus is pre-LL content, hostile clerics can and will attempt to turn you (at higher levels as well i presume, but it was especially an issue at zhents and shadow elves)
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Post by jelricle on Jan 19, 2021 12:47:26 GMT
Ha!! Yes, natural "1" has hurt me a handful of times as a Baelnorn facing Greater ruin. :-D
Wow, I have not had a cleric try to turn me, but that may be because I haven't been undead when facing Zents and Shadow elves. I have _got_ to try that! (Realize, I deliberately hung out outside the town when somebody was about to break the crown, just so I could see the effect of being killed by the crown. :-) )
Yeah. I keep 50 harm packs on hand at all times.
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Post by tomaan on Feb 7, 2021 16:07:15 GMT
My personal opinion is that you never shift or select forms for defensive purposes - that's what gear is for. I'm not suggesting you ignore defensive benefits, of course, just that you choose forms for the most effective attack - the defense is just a bonus. As simpetar mentioned, there are high level items that will handle your positive damage vulnerability. Before that, I would focus on your reflex saves (1/2 damage on the most dangerous spells) or gear with evasion. That and a decent mix of positive resistance/immunity should cover you. Or, even better, shift to a form that isn't vulnerable when facing high damage positive attacks or one that can wipe the attacker before they can spam you. Remember: you're a shifter...versatility is your primary weapon. That said, the most useful undead forms for me have been Risen Lord (melee) and Banshee.....sometimes Vampire if I'm out of GS pots.
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Post by thomascovenant on Feb 9, 2021 14:58:02 GMT
Ha!! Yes, natural "1" has hurt me a handful of times as a Baelnorn facing Greater ruin. :-D Wow, I have not had a cleric try to turn me, but that may be because I haven't been undead when facing Zents and Shadow elves. I have _got_ to try that! (Realize, I deliberately hung out outside the town when somebody was about to break the crown, just so I could see the effect of being killed by the crown. :-) ) Yeah. I keep 50 harm packs on hand at all times. Even at drows town you can find some like matrones turn you when on undead forms As For thoses who use like earthquake use your ranges form and playing witht he graphic land to try to lure them to not have them reach close to you too quick before you be able to dmg them good Like Tomaan said your best weapon are your forms, study the land, the mobs you facing and find the way to take them down. With my shifters from Tomaan build i can solo a lot of runs, but i had to learn the way to do them, to wich form to use for some and wich other form to use for others, when facing a group of different kind of mobs some need to be kill first some others after them and the rest at end. Tomaan build i use is very good on so much run if you know wich forms to use and when to use them.
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Post by grasluk on Feb 14, 2021 16:45:37 GMT
Personally I'm considering dropping humanoid for undead on my shifter for these reasons
Access to Sunburst Wail of Banshee - higher dc, better aoe and range.
Kobold traps are fun, but not overally necessary
Dragon incredibly useful for survivability and the number of runs that have gust type mobs that it deals very well with, plus its huge aoe non loot breaking damage.
Construct - hugely important. Amnesia immunity. Iron Golem and poison. Stone useful at times, also find marut useful against the much hated lagetthi in abyss.
wildshape - Medusa, need I say more?
The amount of times people have just assumed I have outsider, but so far it hasn't appealed hugely to me, altho modron looks useful situationally.
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