Warchanter Haste

[yune]

Warchanter haste's duration only counts bard levels, not DwD and not LL if CC is DwD. The docs say that warchanter spells use bard + DwD level and haste is one of them. Displacement does use bard + DwD level. Also, the duration for wc haste on !list effects shows as 1 minute/CL but the extra attack only lasts 1 round/CL, as in the spell description.

[chirality]

I'm not sure about the bug from !list effects reporting the duration of a normal haste spell cast by only bard levels. From what I remember, though, the extra attack (which is the only functional part of the spell) does properly account for dwd levels, because it lasts the same amount of time as displacement (which makes for a convenient way to keep track of haste wearing off).

I guess a way to test would be remove haste gear and see how long the actual hasted effect lasts for. If it lasts for the same duration as !list effects (1 turn/level) claims, then it would seem like when a wc casts haste, the basic haste spell is cast respecting only bard levels (as if it's just a "standard" bard haste spell) and that id# is picked up appropriately by !list effects, but the bonus attack buff is applied separately and has no tracking effect # to pick up. If it lasts for some other amount of time, then it would seem that the effect # itself is mis-reported.

At any rate, it's been a while, but the extra attack buff duration should properly last for 1 round/level including dwd levels, which is all that really matters. I suppose it could be annoying that !list effects isn't reliable in this case, due to the lack of visual cue for wc haste, but again, it ends up being kind of convenient anyway: the only other buff you need to bother with is displacement, and since they both need to be refreshed at the same time, when displacement fades then you know it's time to recast both.

[boroie]

WC haste (extra attack) only respects bard levels (including LL) and can be extended to double the amount of rounds. Eg WC with 21 bard gets approx 4mins or 8mins extended. I confirmed this multiple times by counting attacks per round while beating on some inanimate object. The Haste effect in !effects lasts the turns per round duration and is technically accurate (you can cast it on a level 1 toon to give them long term haste for instance) but there is no reflection of the extra attack haste timer, I use HGX to track it.

[chirality]

I think your math is off, or your testing was off, or both.

If the duration of the extra attack lasted 1 round/bard level, then a WC with 21 bard levels would get approximately 2 minutes (or 4 minutes extended), not approximately 4 minutes (8 minutes extended).

21 * 6 = 126

126 / 60 = 2.1

edit: nevermind--you did say including LLs. sorry.

[simpetar]

Jan 20, 2022 17:14:47 GMT chirality said:

I think your math is off, or your testing was off, or both.

If the duration of the extra attack lasted 1 round/bard level, then a WC with 21 bard levels would get approximately 2 minutes (or 4 minutes extended), not approximately 4 minutes (8 minutes extended).

21 * 6 = 126

126 / 60 = 2.1

edit: nevermind--you did say including LLs. sorry.

I believe the point is: the spell does not do what it is supposed to do, at least according to the (updated) documentation. Haste alone after HG edits lasts CL turns. As for its warchanter variant, it does not say anywhere (any longer), that the extra attack effect lasts shorter, AND the spell is listed under spells that have CL equal to Bard + Dwarven Defender + LLs (if CC is Bard or DwD).

I think we can all agree that the spell is bugged and needs to be fixed to match its documentation (or the documentation needs to reflect the spell's bugginess / real state and make it official)

[chirality]

Jan 20, 2022 17:50:25 GMT simpetar said:

Jan 20, 2022 17:14:47 GMT chirality said:

I think your math is off, or your testing was off, or both.

If the duration of the extra attack lasted 1 round/bard level, then a WC with 21 bard levels would get approximately 2 minutes (or 4 minutes extended), not approximately 4 minutes (8 minutes extended).

21 * 6 = 126

126 / 60 = 2.1

edit: nevermind--you did say including LLs. sorry.

I believe the point is: the spell does not do what it is supposed to do, at least according to the (updated) documentation. Haste alone after HG edits lasts CL turns. As for its warchanter variant, it does not say anywhere (any longer), that the extra attack effect lasts shorter, AND the spell is listed under spells that have CL equal to Bard + Dwarven Defender + LLs (if CC is Bard or DwD).

I think we can all agree that the spell is bugged and needs to be fixed to match its documentation (or the documentation needs to reflect the spell's bugginess / real state and make it official)

Yes, I believe that is the point, as well. If it seemed like I missed the point, my apologies. The post you quoted, I left up edited, but it deserved to be deleted, since it's useless.

The earlier post, however, does address the actual "point" of the OP. I believe I acknowledged the possibility of the bug existing there, as well as mentioning that I thought it might be working properly.

However, the memory of the duration respecting DwD levels is clearly mistaken, and clearly the bug report is not in error, as boroie reported, and as outkast reported 10 years ago. In that thread, the bugged duration is noted, and Funky responds that it may be a bug (but not sure). Obviously, if it is a bug, it hasn't been fixed in 10 years, but this thread is a good bump (hopefully the fix is simple and easy).

I think you're right about what we can all agree to. We can probably also all agree that in 10 years nothing has happened since Funky read outkast's bug report of this exact same issue. This thread could serve to bump it on the to-do list, but in the meantime, the average bard CC chanter will remain playable, fortunately.

[boroie]

Jan 20, 2022 17:50:25 GMT simpetar said:

 As for its warchanter variant, it does not say anywhere (any longer), that the extra attack effect lasts shorter, AND the spell is listed under spells that have CL equal to Bard + Dwarven Defender + LLs (if CC is Bard or DwD).

It does say in the docs (via here) that the extra attack effect is shorter, however not applying DwD levels is indeed a bug (or intended)

Spell Name Haste

Caster Level(s) Assassin 3, Bard 3, Wizard / Sorcerer 3

Innate Level 3

School Transmutation

Descriptor(s)

Component(s) Verbal, Somatic

Range Short

Area of Effect / Target Single

Duration 1 Turn / Level

Additional Counter Spells Slow

Save Harmless

Spell Resistance No





The target of this spell gains a +4 bonus to Dodge AC, 1 extra action per round (allowing an additional attack or spell to be cast) and has their movement increased by 50%.



When cast by a Dwarven Warchanter, the target receives an extra attack for 1 round / level.