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Post by rarosu on Aug 12, 2022 5:02:57 GMT
Hello everyone!
Just created my first character (and forgot subrace so I'll redo him ). Felt like I needed some PvE action, so I'm keen to play a bit on this server.
Some questions though! - I made a character from this build (https://highergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/13964). Just wondering if you can substitute katana for a dwarven waraxe or if it is a mistake for later on?
- About that build... You are supposed to put points into tumble, but do you save all points until level 42 when you get LSA or do you cross-skill?
- Playing in the european timezone (UTC+2/+1). How is the player distribution nowadays?
- Are there other low-level characters to play with? It'd be fun to do some party PvE, at least after a few levels.
I'll be playing as Thorulf the Halfwise to start exploring the server this weekend, looking forward to seeing you!
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Post by chainlink on Aug 12, 2022 6:44:56 GMT
Welcome to the server. Katana has a higher threat range 18-20 so that means with WM levels and OC/DC you will end up with 10-20 and has a marginally higher base damage 2-16 vs 2-12. Characters with full Tier 1 classes benefit significantly more from the higher threat range as you will be landing hits more frequently, if you are in combat with crit immune creatures only the base damage will make a difference as threat range and multiplier no longer matter. Don't spend any points in tumble until you have taken LSA tumble or you will find yourself short of skill points, however if you are planning to reincarnate the character post level 40 (subrace upgrade or whatever) you could spend points on Tumble to boost your AC whilst levelling up although taking it cross class is going to limit you to 23 points and 4 AC There are a good few EU players mostly online in the evenings although some seem to have nothing better to do than hang around all day :-O There are usually at least a few low levels mooching around usually obtaining their accomplishments on their way to immortality, if you do an intersever message (!chat or !newbie) you may find helpful players willing to guide you Melee characters start off really solid but then slow down if they can't self buff and you may find that when you start your Legendary Level adventures you might wish you'd made a caster of some sort as they can potentially kill/damage/disable hordes of creatures with one spell whereas you'll be hacking away at them one at a time, of course if you can find a group to play with that ceases to be a thing and you can stand up front while the casters spam spells from the back.
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Post by simpetar on Aug 12, 2022 6:54:48 GMT
Hello and welcome 1. Weapons are interchangeable in most cases, katana vs. dwarf axe don't make much difference. The usual guideline is to focus in weapon you have the most copies of, but obviously that's something to worry about later when you start farming them. 2. Wait with Tumble until you have LSA. Trying to pump it cross-class may/will backfire, because you will be short on skill points elsewhere. I know, waiting until lvl 42 seems long, but is well worth it. 3. A fair few of EU players are here, during daytime and in the evenings (7-8 pm). Weekends are generally better, but you never know 4. Yes, every now and then new players and vets like to roll a new characters. The command "!who all" (without the quotes) will show you players on all servers, including their level. Parties prior to lvl 40 need to be in 6 level range (for instance 8-14). Once you see somebody in your range, you are free to hop to them and ask to join. If you need help, ask away in game using the "!newbie" or "!chat" channel, here on forums, or in discord. People are usually happy to answer and show you around
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Post by magecat on Aug 12, 2022 9:45:46 GMT
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Post by rarosu on Aug 12, 2022 15:13:13 GMT
This is all great information, thanks!
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Post by magecat on Aug 12, 2022 15:52:40 GMT
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Post by chirality on Aug 13, 2022 4:25:51 GMT
I'm sure you'll find people to play with, and probably can find some lower-level parties without too much trouble. There are usually always a few players levelling new toons or proxies. Most vets also enjoy helping newbies level and learn (as long as it doesn't compete with their precious time for a juicy endgame run) so if you are not shy and ask for help or parties in the chat channels as recommended above, you should have some success.
Don't make a tank as your first character. Also, both of those builds are from 2009, and neither of them are particularly good.
Creating any tank, and especially one of these builds will not result in being self-sufficient and able to acquire wealth to progress and upgrade your options. Worse, your character will be largely useless and redundant, with barely any positive impact, which means you'll be stuck unable to do anything solo, reliant on being dragged to progress, and at the mercy of others to provide you equipment, tags, and subraces, without any hands-on learning for playing a core class along the way.
Starting tank is a trap concept. Make a sorcerer. Then make a bard or druid.
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Post by magecat on Aug 13, 2022 16:53:14 GMT
There is a bit of mixed message in this.
Chirality is correct in that these characters are not going to be successful solo characters in the post Immortal "run" environment.
As to making wealth, it depends how you go about it. There are a lot of methodologies for securing equipment/financing; some require a rogue, others involve looting difficult monsters.
As an example, most of the dragons in the pre-Immortal environment have level limits for picking up the pile of gold you'll find in their lair.
While a sorcerer is almost a requirement on the server, a successful one still requires a lot of "acquisition" to play.
As to the age of the builds under discussion, yes, they are old, but for the most part, the pre-Immortal section of the server hasn't changed significantly since they were written. They are valid for learning most of that section of the server, but that portion is less than a quarter of what the server has to offer.
If you want to follow the sorc advice, the ZOMG build, found under Base Builds>Sorc is an educating build, but there has been a lot of development since 2017, so it may be outdated in the more advanced points. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of people running base race characters, so current builds for new players are... scarce.
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Post by boroie on Aug 13, 2022 22:35:30 GMT
As a well built tank you can absolutely smash 95% of the 1-40 quests/tags. The final 5% are very much out of your reach without help though. If you go to LLs with a solo tank then that will just not work.
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Post by yune on Aug 14, 2022 2:07:13 GMT
Sabregirl's gnoll whipmaster is the only tank that can solo all pre-LL tags other than Lolth (because of levers, not because of mobs). The inflicts make it possible to kill the lv40 dragons. You can solo a few of the LL runs with it, like Tragidore. I know because that was my first toon. And in endgame group play, everyone loves having a lash, even if it doesn't do the most damage. It is quite survivable since it uses a shield.
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Post by dopplegang on Aug 14, 2022 2:40:44 GMT
I would say the ZOMG Sorc page is perfectly relevant on almost every point still to date and if any of the data is wrong on one or two points total, I doubt if anyone would even notice. The basic points of all of these builds are still quite relevant and you could not go wrong using any of these builds as a reference point for how to succeed in Higher Grounds: highergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/25170/zomg-sorceror-hg-40-sorchighergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/25069/touched-treelala-39druid-1monkhighergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/24849/newbie-cleric-september-2016highergroundpoa.proboards.com/thread/25056/updated-bard-39bard-1palI have to double down on chirality's suggestion, its the same suggestion I make to new players. Your bard and your druid will grow faster and achieve your highest success levels faster than any other class you build and the bard at least is easy enough to gear. Your Sorc will be more deadly and effective in any area you go to, and it will be instrumental in the success of every run you participate in. The melee characters are not the ones that ensure your success against your most daunting enemies for 95% of the runs that you will be participating in, in particular after lvl 40 when it gets far more challenging. The melee characters are necessary and effective, but its the casters that kill Asmodeus and enable you to become a demigod, one of your most major accomplishments. Its also the casters that reduce the duration of your fight with the I Immortal from an hour long sword fest to a few minutes of missile storms. That is not to say that Boroie is incorrect. the 1-40 game can be done with a melee almost entirely, the 1-20 levels are easier as a melee, but it tends to slow down the closer you get to 40, and at the very end its necessary to have help and diversity.
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Post by boroie on Aug 14, 2022 7:52:49 GMT
the 1-40 game can be done with a melee almost entirely, the 1-20 levels are easier as a melee, but it tends to slow down the closer you get to 40, and at the very end its necessary to have help and diversity. Yes, this is correct. For example when you roll through the drow houses doing 1000 point crits on individual drow it feels great, but when you get to lollth and your armor gets stripped and you get ruined inside the first couple of rounds then it does not feel so great. Its important to realise that the game is designed for party play with a series of disparate but complimentary abilities and skills. While you can certainly solo large parts of the mod with certain characters, it is preferable to do most areas with a party. Here is where the typical shout of ABCD (arcane, bard, cleric, druid) comes from - especially for the higher level areas.
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Post by chirality on Aug 14, 2022 14:09:15 GMT
There is a bit of mixed message in this. Is there? I don't know. I think it's pretty straightforward. It's not mixed at all. Maybe I miss your meaning. As to making wealth, it depends how you go about it. There are a lot of methodologies for securing equipment/financing; some require a rogue, others involve looting difficult monsters. As an example, most of the dragons in the pre-Immortal environment have level limits for picking up the pile of gold you'll find in their lair. I don't know what this is supposed to mean. "Methodologies?" I'm not talking about getting gold piles from dragons. I'm talking about building up account-wide/player-wide wealth and power by being able to farm the gear required or useful to progress. This does not involve a rogue, at all, and the concept isn't really a set of different paths depending on what you want to do. It just is what it is. You need to be able to solo farm gear/subrace upgrades, keys, and unlock advancement when you have downtime by yourself. You need to be able to provide a core spot to call or fill runs without being a third wheel when you have time/desire to play with others. The smaller the party, the better a sorc, bard, cleric, or druid is. Every vet has tanks that completely override any utility or value of most ungeared newbie tanks. This isn't even about level, subrace, or demi, as much as it is simply about having the gear required to be a solid tank (even a low damage tank can kind of be helpful--although for most vets...not really), and secondly the gear required to output useful damage. If neither of those two factors are there, you can provide utility, which as yune touched on above can come in the form of an inflictor like a lash, or perhaps something that can do rogue duties. Another example could by hybrid caster tanks or quasis that can also provide some sort of buffs, save drops, or do something other than "have a sword and shield and smack stuff" which is fine until you realize you don't have any of the gear to survive reliably without begging it from vets or farming it yourself (back to the sorc thing), and when you further realize that "tanks" are not really needed for most LL runs with the proper caster or shifter pieces in place. Tanks are far more gear-dependent than casters. This is one of the Great Facts Of HG that, despite many reminders by wise players over the years, newbies still get advised incorrectly on. Similarly, another Great Fact Of HG is that tanks are far more subrace-dependent than casters, and again, the well-meaning yet misleading suggestions that tanks are better with worse subs than casters has led many astray. On that note: While a sorcerer is almost a requirement on the server, a successful one still requires a lot of "acquisition" to play. False. As a standalone claim, this is incorrect, but it's even worse in the context of a comparison with tanks, which is exactly the wrong advice I talked about above. There are hardly any other classes in the game that require less acquisition than a sorcerer to play. Some possible exceptions could include helper-utility-bbod battlecleric, AA, shifter tank. Aside from half-black dragon which is remarkably and uniquely perfect for botc (in fact, there is no secret or UR better, sadly), sorc has the best open subrace match of any other class. Its secret subrace option is also amazing. Furthermore, there are multiple lower-tier/lower-value BUR options that work perfectly well for double book reinc until an rg is acquired (for example, cambion, half-cloud giant). It doesn't matter how hard rad gen or sorc tia staff is to get, or how expensive augs are, or anything else, because a sorc enjoys baked-in superiority by virtue of either pal save splash option or autochannel, and +50% slots which, taken together, are simply phenomenal and head and shoulders above what most other classes receive as "starter" builds. Close matches include monk splash on druid and pal splash on bard. As to the age of the builds under discussion, yes, they are old, but for the most part, the pre-Immortal section of the server hasn't changed significantly since they were written. I wouldn't argue with the "for the most part" clause, but just to be contrarian: I think it has changed significantly, in many ways. It has changed quite a bit even in the last several years, let alone since 2010 or 2009. Most of the older changes I see applying to 1-40 content are more in the form of edits in general, not lowbie-specific things. However, more recently, 1-40 has been targeted by many changes that really shifted the landscape in various ways versus even 5 years ago, let alone 10+ years ago. Do the builds such as those OP chose or you linked above still basically do the same thing they did back in 2009? Yes, but even back then these builds are essentially engineered to just go through the motions and not really lead success independently of a strong party. Sabregirl's gnoll whipmaster is the only tank that can solo all pre-LL tags other than Lolth Are you sure about that?
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Post by simpetar on Aug 14, 2022 16:46:51 GMT
Sabregirl's gnoll whipmaster is the only tank that can solo all pre-LL tags other than Lolth (because of levers, not because of mobs). Nah, I don't think so. Enter staffy, self-evident. Slinger as well, as far as you call it a tank, they have AC, AB and damage... and unlike melee don't get autokilled when a dragon decides to time stop, plus they directly counter any GRuin spammers.
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Post by jelricle on Aug 15, 2022 13:48:01 GMT
This is all great information, thanks! Welcome to the server!!!!! I am an eternal newbie, myself. How was your intro over the weekend? I have found there are almost always some folks around in all timezones (particularly during the weekend) You will also find many vets who keep lower level toons around, just to be able to run with newbies. I have just one toon and one CD key. (And one small screened laptop, so no multi-boxing for me! :-D ) but I am looking forward to running with you once you reach 40 (I can only shackle my poor toon down to 40) I wanted to highlight magecat's link for the quests at the Ascension docks. Those quests are an excellent quide to learning your way around the server and for gauging how your toon is developing Additionally, you should check out the page on accomplishments. These accomplishments have level caps and give benefits (plusses to skills, immunities, etc.) so you do not want to accidentally blow by them. They are also a good guide and metric for your toon. Don't get too tied up about creating the perfect build as you start out. As I think you learned, HG has a mechanism for reincarnation; so play around; get a feel for the HG specific changes; then reincarnate, incorporating what you have learned. Lastly, as you have already learned, these forums are very welcoming and the people are glad to answer questions (ditto, in-game, when you use the "!newbie <<question, brag or rant message>>". Trust me, since they haven't blacklisted me for asking too many inane questions after all this time, you are safe! :-D Have you played on other NWN servers or with the regular campaign or fan mods? If so, then you are in for a treat. HG is essentially a brand new game with all the changes they have made! pre-40 is a blast, and then a whole new door opens for you as you hit legendary and paragon levels (40-60 and 60-80) See you soon!
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