Could we have somebody or something to destroy bound items?

[jelricle]

Proposal:  Have a person or place (Alchemist?  Zerial? Ixion?  Some location in Hells, Elysium or Abyss? Some glowing light?)  where you could go to have bound items destroyed?

At the moment, we need to find a DM who happens to be running with escalated privileges (and somebody once said that you can use reincarnation) if you want to get rid of an item that is bound to you (ie. which cannot be dropped or even put into a bag)

I presently have a teldar's belt of honing and a guild combat dropper that I accidentally bound to myself (and an extra wand of disaster due to a muffed purchase, but that one will eventually go away when I use up the charges)   I wish there was a conversation and targetting function a la Ixion to destroy items.


My 150 inventory slots (200 including the PH) are precious, since I tend to run around with a set of legendary level gear and a set of paragon level gear, so that I can quickly join any run somebody happens to have (both sets have multiple items for the same slots so that I can quickly get all the immunities needed, including for targetted runs, such as my "spell imunity: entangle" shield, which I only use in Toyshop, or my Bigby immunity belts, which I only use in Elysium)  I would love for a way to get rid of the dropper and the honing belt.

[chirality]

this is something i've always wanted, because it would be nice to target-delete unwanted items on a whim.

however, the potential QoL improvement factor of the concept is weighed down by the fact that the mechanism would almost certainly be buggy and almost certainly result in requiring DM intervention to fix any issues that arise anyway.

surely it could be implemented in a way that almost entirely disallows misuse (with several layers of redundancy and verification before an item is deleted), but even still, it's likely that people would somehow find a way to accidentally delete something they didn't want to, or change their minds and want the item returned. neither of those cases even gets into the likely scenario of the mechanism somehow interfering with existing things that are probably already buggy (nods at recent thread #24309809 about item bug #042395).

as for the inventory slots, it's a good idea to conduct regular maintenance and cleanup. there's not really any good reason for even coming close to approaching the limit. i know that sounds patronizing, but it's really just promoting the health of the mod by reducing lag 

since hg offers multiple servers, it's very convenient to hop and sell mid-run if needed. the time saved by procrastinating cleanup until the limit forces you to do so is arguably more than balanced out by the extra time spent shuffling around a ton of full boxes and pages at once.

i get annoyed at unnecessary bound items, but really the only thing it's hurting is a desire for things to be perfect. an extra 5 or even 20 useless things has absolutely zero impact on enjoying the game, outside of fragile OCD feelings.

if PH didn't exist, and if you couldn't hop servers and sell stuff/bank with near-zero downtime, accumulating more and more unwanted items that you're stuck with forever would be a bit bigger of a deal, even aside from reinc. in my experience as a hoarder, the only time space/itemcount limit becomes an issue is when you're intentionally collecting non-autosell loot to greedily make more cash and/or randomize. in this case, the penalty of having a precious % of inv space and encumbria limit taken by useless bound items is just the another price to pay for trying to max out your wealth, just like spending extra time and energy selling things one by one. it is what it is.

in your case, it seems like the issue is less about hoarding loot to sell and more about hoarding loot to save a trip to the bank in case you have to shackle. i hate shackling and regearing so i totally get this. however. it doesn't take very long to run to the bank, and again, server hopping makes this very practical even "on the go." unless you are porting to someone waiting in town, you also need to run by the bank to shackle first anyway.

if i misunderstand and you're not talking about shackling, i'm not sure what you mean by paragon level gear. do you mean a set of gear for limbo and a set of gear for every other area in the mod? (limbo is the only paragon level run ). if you mean you have some gear that you wear for "LL" runs and some gear that you wear for hells+ zones, i would be curious what exactly the changed things are. your examples seem to be more of a personal choice to carry extra gear rather than prioritize utility; for example, a simple FoM aug provides entangle imm for toy (and who runs around without at least augged fom anyway? that sounds horrible ). as for bigby, that makes a bit more sense, but do you really need to carry around bigby imm belts (??) in your inventory for a run that you probably only do once a month if you're lucky?

anyway, if accessing bank vaults to put on proper run-specific gear before heading out is a hassle, your ph provides the functionality to avoid doing that. i hate wasting time in the bank myself, especially before a run, so i do understand. however, if you don't have room in your ph for a belt that you only wear in one of the least-commonly-ran zones on the server, i'm almost afraid to ask what you do have in there.

[jelricle]

Yeah, it is for shackling! :-D I have my 60 equipment (with a couple 55's) and I have my 50 equipment for when I shackle.
Both sets include equipment I wear and buff gear. Plus all the Stygia wands, heal and harm vases, rebirth stones, common keys/passes, etc. etc.

Doesn't FoM just give you the Freedom attribute (which includes immunity from entangle)? Freedom/immunity to just entangle seems to only work for one type of cross bowmen. There is another that seems to need the explicit _spell immunity_: entangle. The _spell immunity_, I believe have found, does not seem to protect you from the bows that need freedom and generic entangle immunity. I think I am only safe when I have both the spell immunity _and_ freedom. One or the other seems to leave me vulnerable.

I figure that it should have no more consequences than somebody dropping an item and having it despawn while they are on another map, or of having ixion destroy the wrong augment.

[chirality]

in other runs, there are other similar entangling special attacks that do require specific gear-derived immunity, which do not respect fom.

for toy and loca, fom does provide protection, so you can put that shield back in the bank and benefit from something with better protective values. just keep fom up. it's a good habit for most classes (ie, in practice anyone other than a mage who doesn't really miss it as much in a group setting due to class role as ninja artillerist w/ gv). this is due to the distribution across LL+ runs of not just entangling bolts but also grab dom attacks that fom protects from. as well, the speed boost is really good, not just as a qol timesaver, but also because being fast enough to maneuver thru spawns without getting stuck is very useful. this is true whether soloing or in a group.

dropping an item and having it despawn--or, worse, trying to pick an item from a split chest and having it poof because there's not enough inv space available--is definitely unfortunate. as well, it's true that the game does have some sources of disarm-to-ground which do require careful attention paid and many players have probably lost at least one weapon or staff to such an incident. thus, i could see a parallel between this being built into the game and having a bound item remover with potentially "similar" risks also being built in.

however, i see a couple key differences:

1) many bound items are critical to character validity. in other words, unlike literally anything else that can be dropped from the inventory, which is just a tough hit to lose (no matter how tough--even in the case of something irreplaceable like a pelor mote ), having a bound item removed could pretty much--or absolutely--break a toon. which leads to the next point:

2) many of these bound items are bound precisely for the reason that they shan't/can't be removed from the toon or else a DM would have to fix something. this is precisely why the flag is used for most of these items. obviously, the ones that we're interested in removing fall in the second bucket--the category of non-crucial/non-"plot" things that can be added or subtracted without impactful consequence. this leads to the followup task at hand if such an item remover were to be implemented:

The first step in engineering this remover would be creating an inclusive and error-free list of bound items that are viable targets for deletion. this is the kind of listmaking that i'd enjoy volunteering for.

as for implementation, i don't know which would be lower-profile: a new item itself or a new simtool command. if an item, it could be obtained from a pedestal similar to autocaster or guild tokens. it should be not bound so you can grab and trash it as desired. special power unlimited/day, either deletes targeted item or returns an error. simtool command would work off !target command and return an invalid target error if attempting to delete something that's not on the approved list.

in either case, maintaining an up-to-date list of valid items would be a recurring dev cost.

overall, i don't see the concept as being anything but extremely low-priority; it's a theoretical nicety that really doesn't need to exist and would require X hours to code that could be spent fixing bugs. at the moment, the problem it's trying to solve is hardly a problem. i'd consider needing DMs to delete invalidly-named toons to be more important than deleting unwanted bound items, as a sidenote. Finally: again, even with a robust implementation, it's certain to include some accompanying bugs that DMs would have to fix ingame and devs would have to fix out-of-game anyway.

cool idea. maybe in 3 days?

[dopplegang]

TLDR: I like it. But. The current and future potential for exploits/bugs is high with this one.

[boroie]

Oct 31, 2022 9:27:19 GMT dopplegang said:

TLDR: I like it. But. The current and future potential for exploits/bugs is high with this one.

I can see the need for a certain item - after all if you said to a player 'click this pedestal and gain a permanent +1 to your inventory slots' then 90% of players would probably do it. Clicking the guild ac dropper token (especially when not a member of said guild) results in a permanent -1 inventory slot effectively. 

However for items like Teldars Toolbelt or the Arcane Archive scrolls which specifically say in the description 'this will be bound to you' then I have rather less pity. Items like quivers that generate undroppables can generally be sucked back into the original item and then dropped. Items like the picks from uro need to be used individually I think to get rid. I can't think of too many more items that bind - artifacts (int/wis/str/etc) that create an undroppable token, stygia rods (use em to lose em), autocaster, pcscry tool, targetting token, environment rings. Some of these don't count towards the limit, and items worn do not count towards the limit. 

Mainly though this is an inventory management thing with only a small symptom of the management being a complaint over a small amount of spaces being consumed. 
Instead of a lot of teleport gems, get a rune of return. Instead of stacks of potions, use heal/harm beaker and the uro beaker. You don't need hundreds of items for gearing, you should use bankchests. 

As a shifter you want FOM, Camo and UEF as your primary buffs. Nothing else really matters. Maybe Deathward if your gear doesnt cover death imm. 
FOM - level 45+ aug on something. For added bonus, put it on a UEF ring. You can also get the item from arcane archive, but that consumes an inventory slot. 
Camo - There is a ring from POM and a cloak from Tragidore that give you multiple uses of level 45 camo. There is a heavy BUR armour that gives you level 55 camo. 
UEF - Use the ring for short term UEF, or get the amulet from Thanatos to give level 55 UEF (and shadow shield). There is also a helmet from Ely with level 55 uef. 
Deathward - level 45+ aug or arcane archive scroll but only if you don't cover it with gear (it happens). 
Items that give endure elements, energy buffer, monstrous regen - these can be helpful sometimes but you should be able to go without. However they are all augs that can be applied to rings you have in your inv already. 

Even all in, you should have maybe 10 slots consumed. Other buffs are too short or dont give any real benefit (always check the caster level)

As a shifter you can very easily cover all the things - eg asmo armour gives you 1 element at 100, then the vestige shield gives you fire & elec covered. So 1 decent ring can cover the other 2 elements and you have ~100 element resist from 3 items worn. 
You can wear breach boots, or the thraxia breach cloak. Put on a planewalker and you have now got most important things covered. That leaves belt, bracers, hat, (boots or cloak), amulet and staff to cover other things. 

You don't need all of the things. It takes 12 items to fully gear a character assuming you swap mote and rings each time also. 
Assuming you cover rings, buffs, rods and potions etc as above that is a max of maybe 40 slots consumed. So you have room for 9 complete gear changes still left over not including the gear already worn, which makes me astonished how you can run out of space. 

I have 2 sets of gear on my shifters. 1 is the default unshackled layout. The other is level 40 appropriate (with 1 extra level 50 armour). I have ~90 slots consumed on each of my main shifters (including several sets of dustbone/thids keys). Some inventory hygiene can go a long way. 

[drunkenboastor]

Bound items do not !count.

[yune]

The true nemesis of the item count is the unappraised gem.

[Yojimbo]

Wait there is a limit to what you can carry beside how much space the inventory screens actually give you?

[dopplegang]

you may only carry 150 items in your inventory total, not counting exemptions and specific things.

[Paradoom]

To be precise, you can carry more, but will have to drop items in town until you are at or below 150 items

[jelricle]

Oct 31, 2022 22:00:35 GMT drunkenboastor said:

Bound items do not !count.

You mean they don't count against the 150 item limit?!  That would be great, if true!

[jelricle]

Nov 1, 2022 14:01:27 GMT Yojimbo said:

Wait there is a limit to what you can carry beside how much space the inventory screens actually give you?

Specifically, if you enter the town of Ascension (or its docks) with more than 150 items in your inventory, you are transported to the island of "Encumbria", where you will have to drop, destroy or sell (for lower than normal prices) items until you get down to 150 or lower.

You are safe in the Wandering wyrm and in Guild areas, so, when returning from a run after having gained enough items to put you over the 150 cap, hang out in the Wyrm until the leader gets to the guild for the split (or do the split in the Wandering Wyrm) 

[madzapper]

Nov 12, 2022 2:52:08 GMT jelricle said:

You are safe in the Wandering wyrm and in Guild areas, so, when returning from a run after having gained enough items to put you over the 150 cap, hang out in the Wyrm until the leader gets to the guild for the split (or do the split in the Wandering Wyrm) 

And any additional buildings within town (i.e. Armor Shop, Weapon Shop, etc). When I used to farm a lot, I'd park the toon I was farming with in one of the buildings on 111, and if over limit, you can portal to 111 and deal with your inventory mess.

madzapper

[jelricle]

Nov 12, 2022 23:09:12 GMT madzapper said:

Nov 12, 2022 2:52:08 GMT jelricle said:

You are safe in the Wandering wyrm and in Guild areas, so, when returning from a run after having gained enough items to put you over the 150 cap, hang out in the Wyrm until the leader gets to the guild for the split (or do the split in the Wandering Wyrm) 

And any additional buildings within town (i.e. Armor Shop, Weapon Shop, etc). When I used to farm a lot, I'd park the toon I was farming with in one of the buildings on 111, and if over limit, you can portal to 111 and deal with your inventory mess.

madzapper

Ooooo, good to know!!



I will park in the armor shop. I have found he has the best sale prices.