Boosting the Brazier of painful truth

[jelricle]

Hey Devs,
Given that you need to be level 55 to use it, would you consider upping the locate object ability of the Brazier of Painful Truth vestige to 2 or 3 times a day and/or removing the requirement of having had to equip it during your last rest?

I don't think this would unbalance the vestige -- It still would not be able to compete with the moliated glint -- I think boosting it in this way would pull it away from "regularly frustrating" while keeping it in the "Still takes work and dedication to use productively" zone. 

As it, it has been particularly troubling in the non-free rest areas.

(BTW, am I the only one who keeps picturing a woman's undergarment that is made of chainmail, whenever I read that vestige's name?)

[chainlink]

You were not around in 2020 were you - Dec 1, 2020 Bug and Exploit Fixes: -The Brazier of Painful Truth now requires you to rest while wearing it in order to use it, per the description.
And not really - 'A brazier is a container used to burn charcoal or other solid fuel for cooking, heating or cultural rituals. It often takes the form of a metal box or bowl with feet. Its elevation helps circulate air, feeding oxygen to the fire.'

[Yojimbo]

Yeah the rest while equipped is common among many items so that doesn't bother me but the once per rest aspect of it I can see being bothersome. I only use it really with my Rogue who has the moliated glint so I get 1 use per 10 min +1 w/o timer per rest +Locate Object potions. I guess in many ways while I would like 1 more use on the torch I also could argue for "just farm some locate object potions". I will support 2 uses per day on the torch it would help some builds more than others and in some areas rest can be more valuable.

[chainlink]

When there are items that are easy to obtain (relatively at least) that perform the Locate Object function any changes to the Brazier (bearing in mind it was historically changed to avoid an exploit) would be incredibly low on the list. Just go farm potion components in Deep Water job done or if you are a richboi/can't be bothered to spend the time there pay somebody else to go farm them for you

[jelricle]

Yeah, I think farming works better for those who have a bot army and can abuse more mobs appearing. I have spent hours in the deep water, and only encountered 2 or 3 flotsam oozes (only one of which dropped some jelly) :-D

Now that it has been closed, can you say what the exploit was? I am curious about how limiting it to be worn while resting would fix something . . .

As it stands, I am dreading mapping out the furrow, Penumbra and Sissy (and Gaobin, for that matter) If I could get three per rest, it would allow me to get the general area with two casts, then gamble with the third, so I have a shot of locating it every one or two rests -- As I said, not particularly unbalancing.

Since I need to be 55 to use it, and since the secrets are level capped below 55, I cannot just cast once, then search in the area to find the exact spot. That is why I have to cast multiple times to just identify the spot, then return with lower and lower shacklings until I find it.

[Yojimbo]

I suspect the exploit was some means of having and using more than 1 brazier and possibly even with them being stored in say a portable hole.

[jelricle]

Dec 14, 2022 16:58:19 GMT Yojimbo said:

I suspect the exploit was some means of having and using more than 1 brazier and possibly even with them being stored in say a portable hole.

:-D

Anybody who would waste, not just one, but two vestiges on that thing is probably been punished enough!   
Don't get me wrong.  I love it and use it constantly, but I am a weird HG player.  I fully understand everybody who laughed at me when I told them my first (and, so far, only) vestige would be the Brazier.

:-D

[Yojimbo]

If you have lots of toons and/or accounts with the vestiges you don't really feel too punished probably.

[jelricle]

Dec 14, 2022 22:32:56 GMT Yojimbo said:

If you have lots of toons and/or accounts with the vestiges you don't really feel too punished probably.

But don't vestiges bind to the toon, a la the Asmo amulet?  Are they actually transferable?  I thought that was only for Pelor's solar mote.

Heh, if somebody was willing to create a toon, get it to 55, then run the abyss levels 5 times, choosing the torch each time, purely to explore, I think they would have earned the right to carry and use them all, exploit or no!   :-D

[chainlink]

Text is exactly as posted I have no further knowledge about it as for the potion farming I do it with 2 characters going to a maximum of 3 if I can be bothered so hardly 'an army of bots' it just requires some patience and a bit of time when you aren't doing something else.

[Yojimbo]

My point was someone with many toons and accounts might not feel so crippled by it, particularly if the toon is basically a searcher/picker bot, if they chose the brazier multiple times. You are right you can't transfer them and they are bound to the toon.

[chirality]

i think the change did make people feel "punished" (just like any nerf), but that ground was treaded a couple years ago and it is what it is.

as for anyone feeling crippled, i mean...the context is of a non-rogue wanting to perform as efficiently as a real rogue and being dissatisfied with the torch not/no longer allowing rogue to be effectively replaced by basically any other class, so...

at that point un-nerfing or buffing torch is pretty much just giving it (back) wrap status, with the gatekeeping item unlocking satisfaction and without the item you're still crippled; it'd just be back to jelricle's situation before he had the torch anyway.

i don't think having or lacking bot armies has any particular relevance here, any more than it does with regards to virtually every other aspect of the game: compared to having a bunch of bots, not having any is crippling.

the pre-nerf torch was a boon to everyone whether botting or not; the post-nerf torch is still a boon because it does still allow parties to take the hit of a marginal loss in power from a rog splashed slot rather than the hit of spending a whole slot on a CC rogue or farming pots.

regardless of 1 or 9 bots, botters, just like full parties of soloers, are still either dealing with the non-glint locate object item options being used by a rogue splash bot, or expending a bot slot for a real rogue. as for not having any bots at all, it's still back to jelricle's issue of wanting solo as as a non-rogue woth CC rogue tricks; it could be argued that the post-nerf torch at least does enable and accommodate this as a possibility.

[jelricle]

Yeah. I guess I just felt that a couple more casts would still be far below a rogue, but elevated to at least useful. As is, each of the furrow, sissy, thids, Gaboin, etc. are going to take forever rather than just a couple decently long sessions. As is, since I cannot actually search for the secrets, unless I get lucky on the third casting, it takes 4, sometimes 5 casts per map to pin point the secret (Then the repeated returns, shackling up and down to find the cap)

Not needing to equip it while resting was just for the occasions that I forget to swap out my shield! :-D I still would love to know what the exploit is. Yojimbo's guess doesn't seem that much like an exploit. I would think somebody who collects multiple torches, sacrificing the other vestiges, would have earned the right to swap between them.

[jelricle]

Whoo-hoo!! Well, in spite of my complaining, it can be done.

The brazier certainly lived up to its name, though.
It has taken me ages to pin down the search spots for all the legendary and pre-immortal maps.
(Now we just need the devs to put some useful loot in those locations! :-D )


I still feel giving three casts would not be unbalancing, nor endangering the usefulness of rogues. :-P~ ;-)

[woqued]

What is endangering the usefulness of rogues is the class itself being weak and not fun to play. There's a reason everyone is playing every possible non-rogue rogue out there, even if it's an afkbot. Rogue does not feel good to play or build currently, and even before wrap nerfs "port-a-rug"'s were commonplace because they haven't been in the best of places in a while - basically since the dual dmg type weapons got bonkered but the wrap nerf really kicked any non-35/x/x rogue in the balls and the "fun" pure rogue was more or less murdered, not that it was op before either.

... Which is a big reason as to why people felt "punished" by the changes to brazier - rogues are second class citizens and simply not very fun to play, so any way of circumventing being forced into bringing these second class dregs along being touched feels more like punishment than justified nerfing - even if it was not being used "as intended" - now it's just less fun and not really a gamebreaker. Just means u gotta go up and swap the rod after the run/map is over instead of just doing it, for the cost of a vestige slot.