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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on Apr 26, 2006 21:19:08 GMT
Hey Funky,
I saw on the docks board that Mask of Mystra has been changed, after the 40+ item script was put in.
I presume because it needed to be better.
If you get the chance, can you also look at the Presentience Guard? The Illithid Wiz bracers? 'cause for illithid loot...they seem pretty lukewarm, though I'd wear them anyway for the two 9ths they add.
Which brings me to the next query: With the enforce level limits on gear removed in favor of a script, do you plan to update already existing items and push them beyond 40? Or are items over 40 reserved for new areas only? Or some combination of upgrading current top end a little, and adding new items in new areas that are 40+ only?
Inquiring elves want to know...
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 27, 2006 1:58:13 GMT
New areas only, at present, but who knows. Funky
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Post by mishimayukio on Apr 27, 2006 2:33:44 GMT
I have to agree on the illithid wizard bracers, its not worth losing all my immunities from clasps of the forewarned for 3 AC and 2 level 9 spell slots. Now maybe if death magic and knockdown immunity was added, along with a bunch of level 7, 8, and 9 spellslots it would be worth using. I also wouldnt mind seeing the AC bonus lowered or removed entirely as 3-4 AC wont make much of a difference.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 27, 2006 2:36:02 GMT
I may go along with this, not sure yet, since the Wiz secret could just as easily do the ac - tho I'm of the every little bvbit helps philosophy, assuming you can get your ac in the 90ish range, especially when facing more than 5 attacks per round. Funky
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on Apr 27, 2006 15:15:31 GMT
My ac, on its best day, is 90 - and thats only thanks to the new shield/mage armor updates.
I wager a number of the high level monsters have that on their +to hit, else how could they have a prayer of hitting the dexers?
What saves my life, is my conceal. AC is nice, especially when I'm someplace where a 90 ac has a chance of being missed (other than 1), but if you wouldn't even take a 90 AC tank into the Abyss...how does 90 AC help me in the desert, or the illithids, or the hells? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but if the monster +to hit is 90+...they hit me every time except on a 1. And, correct me if I'm wrong...with my balor AB 81, things in post-immortal areas like ssithrak, the desert, the furrow, and the illithids, and on into the future...will have 90+ to hit if they don't already?
This is, of course, only me talking about me. People with monk levels or higher dex, or PMs with auto still and plate armor are different...but PMs can never wear that bracer, and most casters with a monk level are sorc/monk/pal or cleric/monk, and also can't wear the bracer.
But on the flip side - bracers with armor and spells are useful because if I get stripped nekkid, I'd ordinarily lose my AC. With this bracer, I don't...but thats a very limited circumstance, as I've been stripped a grand total of 3 times ever. And I'm sorry to say that I feel I have to wear it, even if clasps are better in some ways, because I need the spells.
So, in the end, its up to you if you think this is appropriate loot to come from the illithid zone, and be a 30 levels of wiz item. Personally, I question mathematically how useful a 90ish AC is vs monsters statted to have a chance at hitting a 126-130 dexer AC.
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Post by Lord FlashHeart on Apr 27, 2006 16:20:01 GMT
Personally, I question mathematically how useful a 90ish AC is vs monsters statted to have a chance at hitting a 126-130 dexer AC. Its only pure mages that have such low ac, you can get a no armour, no shield, maximised dc wiz with a positive ac modifier of 17 using a combination of subraces and 1 monk level.
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Post by fusa on Apr 27, 2006 17:04:09 GMT
adding +10 to open lock to the rogue belt in illithiads would be a nice addition, one thing that really seems to be missing from that item.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 27, 2006 17:06:53 GMT
Personally, I question mathematically how useful a 90ish AC is vs monsters statted to have a chance at hitting a 126-130 dexer AC. It's simple math. Highest ab at present is 111, give or take a point or two for bosses, etc. That ramps down by 5 every attack (though haste is at highest). At 5 attacks per round, thats 111/111/106/101/96. Those numbers translate into the following hit %s for the following acs: 130 AC = 10/10/5/5/5 120 AC = 60/60/35/10/5 110 AC = 95/95/85/55/30 100 AC = 95/95/95/95/85 95 AC = 95/95/95/95/95 90 AC = 95/95/95/95/95 Looks like 97 ac ac is the point at which it starts helping - at the HIGHEST abs in the game, currently (illithids). Other LL areas are as much as 15 points lower (ssiths are 96-99, zhedi at 103ish IIRC, I'm not really counting the Maze as a LL area anymore). That would, of course, mean that AC would start helping at that many points lower ac - 97-15 (for this example) = 82. At 5 attacks per round. Most areas ARE currently at 5/round, with several exceptions - the dragons and the abyss. They are at 10 per round. Here are those same breakdowns at 10 attacks per round: ab: 111/111/106/101/96/91/86/81/76/71 (still using 111 for comparison tho abyss is much lower and dragons are much higher) 130 AC = 10/10/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5 120 AC = 60/60/35/10/5/5/5/5/5/5/ 110 AC = 95/95/85/55/30/5/5/5/5/5/ 100 AC = 95/95/95/95/85/60/35/10/5/5 95 AC = 95/95/95/95/95/85/60/35/10/5 90 AC = 95/95/95/95/95/95/85/60/35/10 etc. Because the extra 5 attacksd drop their ac an additional 25, the point at which AC starts helping is 25 points lower - or 72. Now, as I mentioned, right now you will only face this kind of onslaught in boss dragons and the Abyss. But you will also see it in the Hells, and other LL areas. Hells level 1 abs are slated for 111, scaling up one point per level (for mobs not bosses). That's why I'm continuing to put AC on caster wear. It'll be up to you to decide on the point at which it's simply more useful to substitute damage absorb resist items instead - and that point may well dictate that you dont use those bracers until LL items make that absorption available to you elsewheres. HTH, Funky
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Apr 27, 2006 20:02:03 GMT
I want to know what build gives 111ab, lol. I never really built a fighter before because im mostly a spell caster. Spell casting is what I enjoy, and healing is just something I always loved having, so druids tend to be my fav class.
*if someone knows and doesn't want to say, just private msg me pls?
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on Apr 27, 2006 20:43:48 GMT
Ah. As I said, I had no idea what the actual AB statting was. I'd thought it was about 10 points higher than it actually is...scaled to hit the 130 club about half the time or a little less...
That does make a 90 AC with buffs / 82 without more useful, though I'd have to say I still believe that my life depends more on the conceal than the AC.
Which brings me to this question - does anything counteract conceal?
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Post by Balduvard on Apr 27, 2006 21:12:45 GMT
Highest ab at present is 111, give or take a point or two for bosses, etc. Funky was talking about monster AB, since that's what all this conversation is about with casters being hit (since I doubt their concerns are PvP related).
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Apr 27, 2006 21:32:33 GMT
Highest ab at present is 111, give or take a point or two for bosses, etc. Funky was talking about monster AB, since that's what all this conversation is about with casters being hit (since I doubt their concerns are PvP related). I know my fault, lol, I overlooked that.
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Post by doomsdaybringer on Apr 27, 2006 21:46:52 GMT
Ah. As I said, I had no idea what the actual AB statting was. I'd thought it was about 10 points higher than it actually is...scaled to hit the 130 club about half the time or a little less... That does make a 90 AC with buffs / 82 without more useful, though I'd have to say I still believe that my life depends more on the conceal than the AC. Which brings me to this question - does anything counteract conceal? blind fight
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Post by FunkySwerve on Apr 28, 2006 1:16:30 GMT
No, blindfight doesn't counteract conceal, it gives reduced disadvantages from a miss % effect applied on the blinded object. They are two unrelated miss chances. I am planning to have the spell invisibility purge remove conceal at high levels, per a player suggestion, though thats an update or two off when I revist spells for revisions. And yes, casters live or die by conceal more than ac, at this point. I expect to get casters up into the 100-105 category, str to around 110-115 with heavier resists, ad dexers to sit tight around 130. Guestimates, natch. Funky
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on May 11, 2006 13:25:01 GMT
Right - last night I managed to get a peek at the edited Mystra's Mask out of Illithids. It is frickin awesome.
Then I took a look at my Prescentient's Guard.
The contrast is absolutely HUGE between them. It isn't that great as an item to begin with when compared to the rare loot Clasps of the Forewarned. Considering where it drops...it isn't a big reward either.
Considering it is the only wiz-specific item in Illithids, and it is very cool to have the level/class specific requirement BTW (which I'd like to see more of...its kinda odd IMO that many items that give class specific spells are not limited to that class's use) - But considering that it is *the* special wiz item in Illithids...it isn't very special.
And now, contrasting it vs the sorc special item - it just plain stinks. Smells BAD. Nowhere near similar level of power/usefulness for the same level/class special item from the same area.
PLEASE reconsider the appropriate stating of this bracer. Pretty much everyone else I've shown them too agrees that the bracer is just plain pathetic when you consider: where it comes from, the tag you need to wear it, the level/class requirements, comparison vs the area sorc item, comparison vs nontagged, nonrun random clasps of the forewarned, and usefulness in general.
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