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Post by ZeroGravitySE on May 5, 2006 3:01:26 GMT
Every game I've ever played that is modern day, knows that this is the worst feeling in the world to a player. When you spend 1-4hours working hard, organizing, and only to die on the death of the monster and not get the tag? I don't think its fair and I wish to either vote on a change or something on this option? Or is this a rule set in stone?
Just wondering, its a very unpleasant thing when it happens and u need the tag.
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Post by hiryuu on May 5, 2006 3:31:23 GMT
It's an anti-dragging rule. In order to get the tag that you killed so and so, I think it's fair that you at least be alive at their death. I have seen a case or two of someone throwing a 1 and biting it seconds before the battle ends, but usually the people missing the tag spent most of the battle on the floor.
I certainly welcome alternative tagging rule suggestions, but the tag does need to be 'earned' in some manner. Pity tagging defeats the whole point of tags in the first place.
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on May 5, 2006 4:08:49 GMT
It's an anti-dragging rule. In order to get the tag that you killed so and so, I think it's fair that you at least be alive at their death. I have seen a case or two of someone throwing a 1 and biting it seconds before the battle ends, but usually the people missing the tag spent most of the battle on the floor. I certainly welcome alternative tagging rule suggestions, but the tag does need to be 'earned' in some manner. Pity tagging defeats the whole point of tags in the first place. How about just has to be in same zone? Even if dead thats fine? I mean if a group member constantly dies eventually they get the idea that there character is weak and they need to look into making it better, but thats why I wanted the character build forum. I've been sending a ton of people to the forums trying to help every newbie I come across so that the enviroment in HG is a happier one =) or give them a 30second timer where they can still get the tag so that gives there teammates a better chance to get them back up, and that would prevent accidental deaths at the end of a important tag.
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Post by Balduvard on May 5, 2006 4:32:59 GMT
I mean if a group member constantly dies eventually they get the idea that there character is weak and they need to look into making it better If only the real world were so perfect. If someone is in dire need of a tag, and dying before the tag-granting monster is slain prevents that from happening, it would only seem logical for the person wanting the tag to stay out of harm's way, no? If someone dies and doesn't get the tag, that affirms the ultimatum that they really need to look at their build before they can proceed any further. Under any other system it would be more of an, "Oh noble effort, you'll get 'em next time...here's a little something for your troubles." It just doesn't seem right to allow a player to move on when they didn't really prove that they were capable of doing so.
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Post by FunkySwerve on May 5, 2006 5:12:39 GMT
Or is this a rule set in stone? Yes, for all the reasons explained by hiryuu and Baldy. It may be unpleasant, but it's knowing you risk failure that makes it fun. No elation without risk. Funky
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on May 5, 2006 6:42:58 GMT
This is all fine if you guys feel that way. I agree on many aspects, I just dislike it at the same time because it can be a sharp pain over simple mistakes.
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on May 5, 2006 6:48:39 GMT
I mean if a group member constantly dies eventually they get the idea that there character is weak and they need to look into making it better If only the real world were so perfect. If someone is in dire need of a tag, and dying before the tag-granting monster is slain prevents that from happening, it would only seem logical for the person wanting the tag to stay out of harm's way, no? If someone dies and doesn't get the tag, that affirms the ultimatum that they really need to look at their build before they can proceed any further. Under any other system it would be more of an, "Oh noble effort, you'll get 'em next time...here's a little something for your troubles." It just doesn't seem right to allow a player to move on when they didn't really prove that they were capable of doing so. The only thing stopping you guys from implanting that, is what was said before, "exploiters." I don't think like an exploiter, and I don't think I want to ever work the system like some people. I find that to be boring. I try to be more diverse and open to all.
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Post by ekstroem on May 5, 2006 8:28:28 GMT
I really like the current system with no tag on death. In my opinion, it makes the game a whole lot more enjoyable when there are something at risk in a fight. On several occasions I've seen people fugue on immortal runs (even right before the immortal was killed) and even though it can be depressing for the player there is a lesson to be learned and in time there will be another run coming up.
As a new player learning the ins and outs of the server I really looked forward to getting my first immortal toon. That would enable me to go explore the tougher areas on the server. Now however, when playing immortal characters the biggest kick I get is when I'm on a run in one of the alternative dimensions where the toon isn't immortal any more. If I or the group screw up my toon will die and I may lose some hard-to-replace items, xp, money etc.
This is not to say that I don't like runs in areas where my toons are immortal, but the runs there tend to be either 1) simple xp / loot hunts, or 2) I-wonder-if I-could-do-this-runs, like the first time you solo the 4 drow houses, or trying to kill Dachy with only two players and quests like that.
I hope the current system stays, and I do hope that the new shorter LL areas will be in other dimensions as well to add some extra excitement to going there.
Cheers,
Claus
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on May 5, 2006 8:48:10 GMT
I agree; it gives it an old school feeling.
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Post by Lord FlashHeart on May 5, 2006 9:26:17 GMT
I think the current system is fine. On those rare occasions where theres been a really unlucky roll or maybe horrific lag you can always hope for a sympathetic DM to give you the tag. As an example a while back I missed out on a dustbone tag because i went to the pocket dimension to recharge spells, this was during the time of the overpowered cleric summon and in the 30 seconds or so i was in the dimension the summon ripped dusty from uninjured to dead and I didnt get the tag. Luckily Av took pity on me and gave it to me afterwards.
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Post by chainlink on May 5, 2006 12:23:01 GMT
I vote for keep it as current as there has to be some risk for the gain. The only time I've cried for a tag was when some muppet accidentally left our party just as Lolth was near death and killed her thereby receiving the tag and leaving the rest of the group tag-less (and quite annoyed to put it mildly!) with no prospect of an immo run.
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Post by Argon on May 5, 2006 17:09:07 GMT
I also agree with keeping things as is. I can still remember back on my first ever immortal run ages ago (before we had LL's and spell improvements and better equ and buffed classes... back when the immortal run was HARD). It was so exciting, so chaotic seeing the madness for the first time. Spending hours and hours leading up to it. Fighting our way across the bridge, reaching the immortal. At which point my wife came home crying from a horrible day at work, and I had to log off to help her. It was so distressing to miss out on the immortal tag I didn't play for a week, but eventually I got over it, and when I finally DID make it back and got my first immortal, it was all the sweeter.
Nothing's so impossible on the server that we should change tagging to make it easier. Even if something goes awry on a Dusbone or Ssithrak run, there'll be another one another day, and then you'll REALLY appreciate it when you get it.
Just my thoughts. (Again, this from the guy that's always complaining things are too easy around here ;-) ).
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Post by Ralkain on May 5, 2006 17:37:05 GMT
Nothing's so impossible on the server that we should change tagging to make it easier. Even if something goes awry on a Dusbone or Ssithrak run, there'll be another one another day, and then you'll REALLY appreciate it when you get it. I agree with pretty much everything you said, but with all the advanced areas now, the early tags seem more of a chore. When it was just Xul, Loth, Immo, and Moad, they all seemed more important than they do now. I like tags and think their concept is necessary, but I wish there was some benefit other than doing the chore. I.e., what if instead of a tag, the character received a unique non-transferrable item of some use instead? Is something like that even possible. For instance, instead of a loth tag, what if everyone got 1 non-xferable copy of the spider ring and later areas that would normally check for the loth tag would instead look for this? (this would also stop the xfer of said rings . Similar things for other tags. To me this would accomplish the same thing, but make it less of a chore (but I'm not sure how possible it is to implement). Dave.
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Post by FunkySwerve on May 5, 2006 21:28:51 GMT
It's possible, and I'd be more inclined to do it, if not for the fact that I'd have to make yet another item immune to loss on death, or force people to get another one if they lose theirs. Tags work, they won't be changing in the forseeable future. Funky
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on May 8, 2006 20:11:22 GMT
I routinely have doubles, or triples, of every item I wear, just in case of Fugue - and I'm immortal. I LIKE risk - without risk, we'd all be bored eventually as we were assured of success and victory in every case. PCs *should* lose - and should have incentive to play smart, and careful, and organized as a team. Elsewise, we'd be bored and idiots/leechs would be rewarded. And for a risk of loss to be meaningful, it has to be an *actual* risk - meaning someone has to lose. Period. And it sucks, and someday it will happen to everyone. And that makes achievement all the better.
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